Jump to content
Our response time is longer than usual currently. We're working to answer users as quickly as possible and thank you for your continued patience.

Moon again. To stack or not to stack


 Share

Recommended Posts

Chris, I stacked the raw files without doing the TIFF conversion, as James suggested. Can I do the TIFF conversion with Affinity? Someone wrote to me here that a subject like the moon would probably not be improved by stacking, but made fuzzier. Seems to be true. 

Thanks and regards, Irving

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

Yes you can go to File > New Batch and just load all your files in and push them back out as a TIFF. 

You should absolutely be able to stack images of the moon but this relies heavily on the the focus, alighnment and other things. You may also see some fringing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, irandar said:

Chris, I stacked the raw files without doing the TIFF conversion, as James suggested. Can I do the TIFF conversion with Affinity? Someone wrote to me here that a subject like the moon would probably not be improved by stacking, but made fuzzier. Seems to be true. 

Thanks and regards, Irving

Hi Irving,

i would recommend to do use Sony apps to do the RAW conversion. There is so much noise despite low ISO settings (the dark half of the moon has many bright spots), and i assume / hope the Sony App might be more capable to manage the noise.

Below you can find one of my moon images. It shows far less noise , and i assume my gear is worse than yours (2016 Canon EOS 80D, Sigma EF 150-600), but it might have an edge regarding noise.

I experimented with stacking, but this did not really improve the images.

_MG_6281.CR2

Edited by NotMyFault
Added own example image

Mac mini M1 A2348

LG34WK950U-W, calibrated to DCI-P3 with LG Calibration Studio / Spider 5

iPad Air Gen 5 (2022) A2589

Special interest into procedural texture filter, edit alpha channel, RGB/16 and RGB/32 color formats, stacking, finding root causes for misbehaving files, finding creative solutions for unsolvable tasks, finding bugs in Apps.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Below you can find the result of a stack of 8 images. It will reduce the noise - without loosing details, as it will happen when using denoise filter, and proves that Affinity works well when used with source images of sufficient quality.

I fear your camera gear (Sony NEX-5N according to EXIF) released 2011 and Celestron C90 1000mm lens (2009?) is unable to provide sufficient image quality in the RAW files.

It is not possible and does not make any sense trying to restore image quality which has not been taken during the capture process.

The level of noise and other quality degrading defects in the RAW files far to big to be compensated in post-processing.

Moon Stack vs. single image.png

Mac mini M1 A2348

LG34WK950U-W, calibrated to DCI-P3 with LG Calibration Studio / Spider 5

iPad Air Gen 5 (2022) A2589

Special interest into procedural texture filter, edit alpha channel, RGB/16 and RGB/32 color formats, stacking, finding root causes for misbehaving files, finding creative solutions for unsolvable tasks, finding bugs in Apps.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I still like the single image better. ;)

The moon is a horrible bright object, so there shouldn't be any strong noise-related issues. Problems are equipment, correct adjustment and of course "seeing"/atmospheric turbulences.
"Lucky imaging" often works great, meaning: take a lot of single shots in a series, later pick the sharpest one. Exposure times should be as short as possible.

@irandar - Honestly, I wonder about how you managed to get such a low picture quality out of your gear? Noise levels and graininess are unbelievable high. - Both camera and MAK should provide far better results.

Thus it could be interesting to know a bit more about your setup and your procedure. :)

I'd first try lowering the ISO value as low as possible. Plus, I'd make sure the picture is focused correctly (maybe a Bahtinov mask would be the way to go); there's several focusing methods, I can explain if you like. Plus (this is wild guess): Switch the camera off for a few minutes to cool down. Then switch on and take the photos as fast as possible. I know, a bit hard without a tracking mount, but still doable. Reason: Usually the noise levels increase with the sensor temperature.
And a general hint: If the stars "twinkle", this is good for a romantic mood, but bad for taking astrophotos. The more the stars twinkle, the worse is the atmospheric turbulences, making sharp pictures very, very difficult if not impossible. But that's not the reason for noise and grain in your photos.
Another idea: You didn't take the photos from a warm room, but outside in the cold? If not - you should. :)

---

Two example pics, single shots, not stacked in any way - first one (no editing at all, right from the camera) showing the size of the moon at 750 mm focal length, second one giving an idea of the quality a single shot should provide. Pictures were among my very first astrophotos, unfortunately taken without a field flattener, edited with no greater expertise. ¬¬
Info: Taken with a cheap Canon 750D, first picture ISO 100, 1/100 s; second picture ISO 400, 1/60 s, both with a Skywatcher Newton 150/750.
Hint: Right-click the pictures, select Open LINK(!) in new tab - then you'll be able to watch them in their original size.

 

IMG_1129.JPG

Mond für FB.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 8 months later...

Hi folks,

I took some moon shots last night with my SW PDS 150/750, Sony Nex 5N with 2xBarlow and UV IR cutoff filter. The resulting image was too large so took moon top and bottom raw images and stitched them and saved as Tiffs. I then normally- stacked the Tiffs (astro stacking did not work well). Editing was done only on the resulting stacked Tiff with the Persona. I stacked only 3 here. Just want to ask your opinion on the method and on the result, attached here. 

Am enjoying AP, mainly up till now stacking other people's astro files and making Youtubes for astro beginners. 

Thanks for any tips.

Irving

 

moon stack tiff 1,2,3 tiff persona edit.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi again,

Thought I would send you this moon from the same night, taken with my old orange C90 Mak and Sony Nex 5N. No filter or Barlow.  Stacked normally with 25 raws and edited with adjustment layers.

Happy to have comments.

Irving

Moon stacked 25pix 12.8.22 ijd jpg.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

looks far superior to the former tries. Good progress 👍🏼

Mac mini M1 A2348

LG34WK950U-W, calibrated to DCI-P3 with LG Calibration Studio / Spider 5

iPad Air Gen 5 (2022) A2589

Special interest into procedural texture filter, edit alpha channel, RGB/16 and RGB/32 color formats, stacking, finding root causes for misbehaving files, finding creative solutions for unsolvable tasks, finding bugs in Apps.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi folks,

I think I have come to the conclusion that stacking moon files is not important if you have a good clear sky. I am attaching stacked (10 frames) and single frame results from my C90 Mak and from my 150 PDS Newton. Stacking in AP was normal, not astro. The stacked results were saved as Tiff and reopened to use the Persona editing. 

From top to bottom: C90 stacked, C90 single frame, PDS150 stacked and PDS150 single frame. 

Amazing how similar they all are. Even my old C90 from 1980 looks not bad compared to my new PDS150. 

Regards, Irving

image.thumb.jpeg.5ebc046d3e0977f137616a805e8c00d9.jpegimage.thumb.jpeg.5ebc046d3e0977f137616a805e8c00d9.jpeg2107707808_c90px178nostackpersona.thumb.jpg.6a85b955ad01dae677a276552e4259ec.jpg2064152331_singlepixPDS220personaeditnostack.thumb.jpg.41651c4899ef72d9e2646373d1b4d865.jpg

pds130 moon 13.8-22 210-220 10px persona edit from tiff.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I stick to my recommendation to not stack moon images (for noise reduction).

The earth atmosphere has so much thermal disturbances, that even a high speed series of moon images differ largely in fine details, reducing sharpness and eliminating small details. 

The moon is so bright that you can always go with lowest ISO, so noise should not be a problem. Even if noise is a problem, stacking does lead to inferior results.

 

Another recommendation is to keep a more flat contrast for a realistic look.

741791202_Moon2022-08-12stacked.thumb.jpg.1a61ecf8f0ac849beae1c5140284fb01.jpg

Mac mini M1 A2348

LG34WK950U-W, calibrated to DCI-P3 with LG Calibration Studio / Spider 5

iPad Air Gen 5 (2022) A2589

Special interest into procedural texture filter, edit alpha channel, RGB/16 and RGB/32 color formats, stacking, finding root causes for misbehaving files, finding creative solutions for unsolvable tasks, finding bugs in Apps.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please note there is currently a delay in replying to some post. See pinned thread in the Questions forum. These are the Terms of Use you will be asked to agree to if you join the forum. | Privacy Policy | Guidelines | We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.