Publisher numbered lists, right aligned + hanging indent

[MikeTO]

I believe the default style Numbered 1 should be set with Alignment = left rather than right. It is defined as Right as shown below:

But the default settings will give you left aligned numbers due to the interplay between the Tabstop and Left Indent settings so shouldn't Alignment be set to Left so the style definition matches the result it achieves and to avoid confusion for new users?

More importantly, Adobe InDesign provides four controls for number positioning which makes it easy to create right-aligned numbers:

In Publisher we have just two controls, and you have to go to Paragraph Spacing for the other two controls you need:

This works well for simple lists but I think it means you can't combine right-aligned numbered lists with hanging indents aligned to the tabstop. I might be wrong about this but I believe that's why Adobe added the two additional controls. Creating right-aligned numbers in Publisher works as long as the text doesn't wrap to the next line. This test document illustrates the issue.

Test.afpub

Am I missing something or is this a limitation of Publisher's implementation of numbering?

Regardless, I suggest adding some copy to the Help page for new users to create right-aligned numbers since it's not particularly obvious and the Help page doesn't explain it. Perhaps something along these lines:

To create right-aligned numbers, set Alignment to Right and Tabstop to the distance from the column edge where you want the text following the number to appear. You must also set Left Indent and First Line Indent (in Paragraph Spacing) to matching values greater than the width of the widest number expected in your list. The numbers will not appear right aligned if you set Left Indent and First Line Indent too low, but if you set them too high, the numbers will be indented more from the left edge of the column than necessary.

[lacerto]

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[R C-R]

If I understand correctly, can't you get hanging indents & right aligned numbers manually by setting the paragraph spacing like below?

Test 2.afpub

[lacerto]

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[MikeTO]

Thanks guys for the help, it wouldn't have occurred to me to do it that way. Publisher handles indents differently than I'm used to and I see I didn't play around with it enough.

Cheers

[Engineering_text]

Thanks for the post and the attached file. I can't make the connection between the menu pictures, the numbers you used, and what happened with the text. In other software, to get the results you got, I would have a left tab set to .25, a right tab set to perhaps 0.5, and then there would be marker I could move to set where a second line for the paragraph would begin at 0.5 to line up with the 0.5 tab. In other software, it would show where the wrapped text would start with the little picture showing a second line being indented relative to the first. Those were intuitive enough, that over the last 27 years I didn't even learn the term "hanging indent".

So I need a walk through of how Affintiy "thinks".  I'm guessing the setting for starting the second line to line up with the tab from the first line (is that called a hanging indent?) is not contained in the circled settings shown in the answer above -but maybe is somewhere else in the default settings for the default list style?

 

[lacerto]

There are at least three settings that can be used to achieve what is asked in the original post:

a) Using Left indent to set the alignment for the actual body text (non-hanging part), e.g. 12mm, and the First line indent to align the figure part that needs to be right aligned (e.g. 5mm), then use the Bullet and Numbering feature Tabstop at 0mm position and right aligned. (Note that Publisher does not have a concept of "negative indent" so the first line indents are not relative to left indent but relative to the edge of the text frame.)

b) Using mere Left indent to set the alignment for the actual body text (e.g. 12mm), and then specify a right aligned tab stop e.g. at 5mm to align the figures. The first tab will align the figures and the second one will align the body text part to the indentation position (without needing a separate tab stop definition; this is similar behavior than in InDesign):

c) The same as in (b) but using in addition optical character alignment specifying the character to align to (e.g. a period) and then percentage of the right optical offset. The Left indent value could in this case be an arbitrary positive value (like here 1 mm) as the actual alignment position is determined by the optical character alignment setting. I am not sure if this method could ever be useful but it just shows that the alignment position can be adjusted by using optical alignment without needing to change the tab stop indentation (perhaps useful if changing the font or font size).

 

[Engineering_text]

Thank you. I'm getting a better understanding of how Affinity "thinks". It took a surprising amount of trial and error to reproduce what you showed, and then to work out how to accomplish my list of variables, where the variable names are left aligned, and longer descriptions wrap around to line up with the tab prior to the description.

To reproduce what you did:

I had gotten used to (in other software) right aligned tabs being placed in the same spot as left aligned tabs -in this case, before the numeral being tabbed. So just as your screenshot shows a tab symbol before the numeral, I was also placing the right aligned tab before the numeral. I was also adding a tab after the numeral as shown in the illustration. I didn't read your instructions well, instead I tried to follow the picture. Eventually, through trial and error I learned to place the right aligned tab behind the numeral AND (when all else fails read the directions) to not enter the tab after the numeral. I thought Affinity just automatically calculated the length of the tab for aligning to the indent. I didn't realize Affinity also it placed the tab automatically.

I am surprised given the overwhelming amount of graphics in the Affinity interface, that the classic representation of a ruler illustrating the placement of indents and tabs is omitted. That classic graphic clarified a lot and shortened the learning curve.

 

 

 

[MikeTO]

3 minutes ago, Engineering_text said:

I am surprised given the overwhelming amount of graphics in the Affinity interface, that the classic representation of a ruler illustrating the placement of indents and tabs is omitted. That classic graphic clarified a lot and shortened the learning curve.

Choose View > Show Text Ruler