Live filter constructor

[kirk23]

Would be super useful if we could  construct our own live filters in a kind of node based interface working in floating point math .    Maybe Something simple at first .   Something using  5 of CMYKA   or 4 of RGBA channels of a layer beneath the    host / target one  or some specifically appointed layer as inputs and doing  basic  distance, blur , displace , kernel, hipass and levels   things.   Plus some repeating, loop capabilities with gradual fading. 

Like pixel processor in Substance Designer maybe.  

  Could be a kind of live mesh warp for example without mesh .  With host layer to warp  and beneath layer giving its R and G channels   for warp direction  vector  and Blue  for warp distance/ strength.

Working together with super cool  linkng  system would skyrocket APhoto to totally another level  way beyond  Photoshop.

 

[Aftemplate]

Nuke is king.

[kirk23]

2 hours ago, Aftemplate said:

Nuke is king.

Yeah. $10k soft is great for sure . The only issue I need just an image editor for static images. not video sequences.     And one where I could use traditional art tools aka brushes.     

So why for anything just a little bit more advanced  involving  CG  images  or just depth /impasto channel  and simple image compositing  we all have to use  those monstrously  complex tools  focused on totally different area.   Especially when APhoto  needs only a few simple tweaks to be perfectly capable .  Especially in its 32 bit mode.

I understand Adobe. They want people to buy After effects  so we wouldn't ever see anything  beyond silly toys in Photoshop  probably.  And After effect is still a video editor mostly .   So IMO it would be a great opportunity for Serif  to fill a market void  for those who need  to compose photo and CG  but doesn't need video output

[Aftemplate]

20 hours ago, kirk23 said:

Yeah. $10k soft is great for sure . The only issue I need just an image editor for static images. not video sequences.     And one where I could use traditional art tools aka brushes.     

So why for anything just a little bit more advanced  involving  CG  images  or just depth /impasto channel  and simple image compositing  we all have to use  those monstrously  complex tools  focused on totally different area.   Especially when APhoto  needs only a few simple tweaks to be perfectly capable .  Especially in its 32 bit mode.

I understand Adobe. They want people to buy After effects  so we wouldn't ever see anything  beyond silly toys in Photoshop  probably.  And After effect is still a video editor mostly .   So IMO it would be a great opportunity for Serif  to fill a market void  for those who need  to compose photo and CG  but doesn't need video output

AE is out. It is not a node.
Node picture editing. It is still a vacancy so far.
There are some immature projects:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/233680/Black_Ink/ (The developer is a turtle, the ancient DX11, no hope
https://github.com/ttddee/Cascade (Just born, I don't know how long it can survive.
For our dream of our node editor. cheers.
Sadly, we don't know how to write code.

[Medical Officer Bones]

On 8/29/2021 at 1:00 AM, kirk23 said:

Would be super useful if we could  construct our own live filters in a kind of node based interface working in floating point math .    Maybe Something simple at first .   Something using  5 of CMYKA   or 4 of RGBA channels of a layer beneath the    host / target one  or some specifically appointed layer as inputs and doing  basic  distance, blur , displace , kernel, hipass and levels   things.   Plus some repeating, loop capabilities with gradual fading. 

Like pixel processor in Substance Designer maybe.  

  Could be a kind of live mesh warp for example without mesh .  With host layer to warp  and beneath layer giving its R and G channels   for warp direction  vector  and Blue  for warp distance/ strength.

Working together with super cool  linkng  system would skyrocket APhoto to totally another level  way beyond  Photoshop.

 

Perhaps Filter forge might fit the bill in the meantime? Full nodal filter construction.

[kirk23]

1 hour ago, Medical Officer Bones said:

Perhaps Filter forge might fit the bill in the meantime? Full nodal filter construction.

I'd love something like Filter forge, even simpler.   Too bad  Filter forge have to be rasterized into a layer, cant stay live  providing dynamically adjusting masks  through APoto layer stack.    That rasterizing kills the whole purpose of staying live. 

Another issue it's CPU bound . Some old version of Xara  worked with Filter forge  in more live manner,  re-rasterizing  evry time you scale or move a host object  and it was slow as hell.

Would Filter forge has an ability to access a layer beneath linked to something   and auto updating if something is changing it would be all I need  even being super slow.  I.e "live" filter forge.         Sadly it can't work that way.  

You have to re-open Filter forge  , re-save and reload all the outside files/resources . then save and render .   It's a  huge pain in a...  Working as a plugin  doesn't make it easier at all. 

3 hours ago, Aftemplate said:

https://github.com/ttddee/Cascade (Just born, I don't know how long it can survive.

Thanks for interesting links. it's new one for me.    I still need/dream of  a kind of hybrid . Both layers and brushes for manual touches  and nodes for filters.     

 

 

[Medical Officer Bones]

In Photoshop and PhotoLine Filter Forge is non-destructive when applied to a smart object (Photoshop) or Placeholder layer (PhotoLine's smart object version). It works really well.

 

[kirk23]

29 minutes ago, Medical Officer Bones said:

In Photoshop and PhotoLine Filter Forge is non-destructive when applied to a smart object (Photoshop) or Placeholder layer (PhotoLine's smart object version). It works really well.

 

it still can't read " layer beneath" as displace input for a warp I described in my original post.  You have to export that layer as a separate image  and re-save the filter.

Well. in the version I have . not the current one. Can it in current version?

[Aftemplate]

2 hours ago, kirk23 said:

I'd love something like Filter forge, even simpler.   Too bad  Filter forge have to be rasterized into a layer, cant stay live  providing dynamically adjusting masks  through APoto layer stack.    That rasterizing kills the whole purpose of staying live. 

Another issue it's CPU bound . Some old version of Xara  worked with Filter forge  in more live manner,  re-rasterizing  evry time you scale or move a host object  and it was slow as hell.

Would Filter forge has an ability to access a layer beneath linked to something   and auto updating if something is changing it would be all I need  even being super slow.  I.e "live" filter forge.         Sadly it can't work that way.  

You have to re-open Filter forge  , re-save and reload all the outside files/resources . then save and render .   It's a  huge pain in a...  Working as a plugin  doesn't make it easier at all. 

Thanks for interesting links. it's new one for me.    I still need/dream of  a kind of hybrid . Both layers and brushes for manual touches  and nodes for filters.     

 

 

this is all.

https://www.sgo.es/doc/workflows/index.html?introduction.html

https://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini/nodes/cop2/cornerramp.html

http://pixaflux.com/history.php

https://www.dl-c.com/Products-PWP8.html

https://github.com/Keavon/Graphite

https://github.com/alexge50/gie

https://github.com/santaclose/noose

https://github.com/VISNode/VISNode

https://github.com/sysrpl/ImageShop/tree/master

https://github.com/aferrero2707/PhotoFlow

https://github.com/dan335/nimp

https://github.com/Correct-Syntax/Gimel-Studio

https://secure.flyingmeat.com/retrobatch/

https://www.thebloomapp.com/download/?ChangeList

https://phoduit.com/blog/

https://github.com/Laidout/laidout

https://github.com/nodebox/nodebox

https://github.com/hodefoting/mrg/

Please insist on your persistence of the node photo editor. Whip makes people travel. good luck.

[kirk23]

23 minutes ago, Aftemplate said:

this is all.

https://www.sgo.es/doc/workflows/index.html?introduction.html

https://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini/nodes/cop2/cornerramp.html

http://pixaflux.com/history.php

https://www.dl-c.com/Products-PWP8.html

https://github.com/Keavon/Graphite

https://github.com/alexge50/gie

https://github.com/santaclose/noose

https://github.com/VISNode/VISNode

https://github.com/sysrpl/ImageShop/tree/master

https://github.com/aferrero2707/PhotoFlow

https://github.com/dan335/nimp

https://github.com/Correct-Syntax/Gimel-Studio

https://secure.flyingmeat.com/retrobatch/

https://www.thebloomapp.com/download/?ChangeList

https://phoduit.com/blog/

https://github.com/Laidout/laidout

https://github.com/nodebox/nodebox

https://github.com/hodefoting/mrg/

Please insist on your persistence of the node photo editor. Whip makes people travel. good luck.

Wow. What a list.    Have you tried them all?    Which ones are live and developing and worth trying?    So far Graphite got my attention as seam having layers too.   I am using Substance Designer currently and believe  a best image editing soft should be a hybrid  , both layers, brushes and nodes.    While Substance Disigner  does have bitmap node with brushes too they are abysmal.

[Aftemplate]

22 hours ago, kirk23 said:

Wow. What a list.    Have you tried them all?    Which ones are live and developing and worth trying?    So far Graphite got my attention as seam having layers too.   I am using Substance Designer currently and believe  a best image editing soft should be a hybrid  , both layers, brushes and nodes.    While Substance Disigner  does have bitmap node with brushes too they are abysmal.

These, all are all, not satisfactory.
Nuke lacking a brush.
SD has no hardware acceleration GPU. And limit the maximum resolution. And missing color mode. (Lab, LCH.
I am waiting for the Nuke to support the brush.
I am waiting for the affinity support node.
in this field. There is no miracle of open source.
I like Krita, excellent. GIMP is a gnome.

[kirk23]

5 hours ago, Aftemplate said:

These, all are all, not satisfactory.

Thanks for short review .  It's so amazing we see so much of a variety in 3d animation area doing  so much progress during past couple decades  and nothing really good in 2d image area.   Nothing really flexible and convenient .   

I personally like Corel Painter   but gosh how ancient it is.      A soft having  a depth channel   and they  never cared to even make it exportable  or be useful for anything beyond fake impasto effect.    Could be Zbrush rival , at least 2,5d part of it.  

 

ps. Substance Designer has GP acceleration of a sort  Works  faster in dx11 mode. Still it's so monstrously robotic and artist-unfriendly . so lacking in ability to make subtle manual touches very necessary  to make any kid of art   I hate it every day 

 

                            

[Aftemplate]

9 hours ago, kirk23 said:

Thanks for short review .  It's so amazing we see so much of a variety in 3d animation area doing  so much progress during past couple decades  and nothing really good in 2d image area.   Nothing really flexible and convenient .   

I personally like Corel Painter   but gosh how ancient it is.      A soft having  a depth channel   and they  never cared to even make it exportable  or be useful for anything beyond fake impasto effect.    Could be Zbrush rival , at least 2,5d part of it.  

 

ps. Substance Designer has GP acceleration of a sort  Works  faster in dx11 mode. Still it's so monstrously robotic and artist-unfriendly . so lacking in ability to make subtle manual touches very necessary  to make any kid of art   I hate it every day 

 

                            

I think. The node is a hobby of a few people. This also applies to the music industry. In the field of music, there are only a few simple nodes. There is no excellent thing. Excellent like FL Studio.

Software developers gave us Apple. So we use Apple. Sadly. Here, there is no freedom. Unless you learn programming. This will spend a lot of time.

You ask the node. Shout developer add node support. This is what you can do.

[kirk23]

1 hour ago, Aftemplate said:

You ask the node. Shout developer add node support. This is what you can do.

The node system would be great indeed but  if they ( APhoto devs)   believe it's too alien for their user base or need extra UI programming   I would survive with layers too.  

Their "pixel content link"  in between layers  is almost same flexible  although still less straight forward and  less read-able  than nodes.   

 I merely need  ANY  "live filter" constructor   with "layer beneath" as  a second input  ( where we could link anything  from other parts of a layers stack)  

  They already have a few of such live filters.    So  it could be just a group of layers working in 32 bit math  that we could save /convert to  a  live filter .      Could be a first step at least.    A second step >> fixed displace working same as in every other soft  and a few extra basic pixel processing things . 

The soft looks  so close to be truly great and better than Photoshop or anything   . Needs just a few minor touches here and there. 

[Aftemplate]

1 hour ago, kirk23 said:

The node system would be great indeed but  if they ( APhoto devs)   believe it's too alien for their user base or need extra UI programming   I would survive with layers too.  

Their "pixel content link"  in between layers  is almost same flexible  although still less straight forward and  less read-able  than nodes.   

 I merely need  ANY  "live filter" constructor   with "layer beneath" as  a second input  ( where we could link anything  from other parts of a layers stack)  

  They already have a few of such live filters.    So  it could be just a group of layers working in 32 bit math  that we could save /convert to  a  live filter .      Could be a first step at least.    A second step >> fixed displace working same as in every other soft  and a few extra basic pixel processing things . 

The soft looks  so close to be truly great and better than Photoshop or anything   . Needs just a few minor touches here and there. 

Any compromise method is not as good as the direct method.

Regarding the node UI, is there any news?  @Andy Somerfield  Our affinity photo tutor. philosopher.

[kirk23]

On 9/3/2021 at 7:21 AM, Aftemplate said:

Any compromise method is not as good as the direct method.

 yeah, I kind of agree. Just yesterday  tried to  make a composition of   CG rendered  things in APhoto and make a few hand painted strokes  here and there.   It's kind of works with layer linking . erase groups as dynamic live masks and symbol containers used like those chain links in Photoshop.  

  it does work  sort of.   But today,  just a next day,   I  already struggle  to figure out  how the whole layer construction  I did yesterday works .   Too many container layers unchecked to select  and too many links .  Found myself thinking how much clear it could be if  a half of the doc would be  linked nodes . For dynamic masks   maybe  or inside live filters as containers.