Perspective texture for pavement simulation

[keviiinio]

Hi there,

I'm a recent Affinity convert and been using it lately to do some urban visualisations. I've been making a lot of progress, and enjoy it, but one thing I've been struggling with is how to get repeatable textures looking good for visualising brick pavement. I've followed a lot of tutorials, but it doesn't quite work out the way I would expect.

What I tried:

• Got a seamless pattern
• Convert to Pattern Layer and scale down so the bricks are closer in size to what I want.
• Use the Perspective Tool to distort it roughly into position.

I hope to achieve a repeating brick pattern a bit like this, which I can then mask into place and adjust further.


My current results 🤪
 


Any pointers would be highly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[GarryP]

Welcome to the forums @keviiinio

Until you get much further into the compositing/masking process, any such image manipulation will look unrealistic as, for this example, the ground doesn’t (usually) cut through cars, people, bicycles, etc.
Your eye will keep telling you that something is ‘wrong’ until you get to a point where the image starts to look much more real.
Also, ‘wood flooring’ (if that’s what you have used, that’s what it looks like) isn’t a particularly realistic outdoor ground covering (for your example image).
Try doing what you have been doing but with a more realistic texture and in a much smaller area, preferably something without too much overlap with the original image.
Once you get used to the process for simple uses you can then try more complex images.
Also, you might want to think about not trying to do the whole thing with one big stretched texture; you might be better-off using a set of smaller textures instead.

I’m sure one or more of the experts will have some better suggestions than mine.

[PixelPest]

You can use a seamless texture but need to duplicate to the estimated aspect ratio of that particular area (Pattern layer can help). Stretching via Perspective grid won´t respect real world camera lens FOVs or other characteristics and properties. Even a rebuilt in 3d with cropped images isn´t easy.

[Wosven]

1 hour ago, GarryP said:

the ground doesn’t (usually) cut through cars, people, bicycles, etc.

I suspect for now it's at tests stage, to find the best process to get realistic results.
The final project either will have no cars and few people... or them.

1 hour ago, GarryP said:

realistic outdoor ground covering

It depends, certainly not for parking lots, but towns try to get less parking lots and more areas for pedestrians, or terraces for restaurants and shops... sometimes doing it themseves or allowing them to do it. The simpler ways when done by shops seems to extent the sidewalk with wood terraces with fences.

It looks better an sturdier when town do it themselves, since they allow more funds for this.

But if wood is used (and it seems to be the trend today — to put untreated woodnatural feelings, etc. —, that go from nicely golden to sadly grey with time), it should be done with the right material.

We've got an history of bridges and walkways — costing a lot — in Paris and around, closed until the planks were modified or changed since they were slippery and dangerous. 

[GarryP]

I assumed that it was some kind of test but the point I was trying to get across was that this sort of work usually doesn’t look ‘right’ until it’s progressed much further when the masking, lighting, shadows, etc. have been added. Until then it’s bound to look ‘wrong’ so the effectiveness of the perspective warp cannot be fully observed.

My other point about the texture was that it’s easier to figure out if the perspective warp has been done effectively if the texture/material used is something which is likely to be used in real life in the same situation. Wood flooring will look strange in a car park in real life so trying to get it to look ‘right’ by composition may be difficult.

Aside: Talking about the ‘wrong’ materials, I remember seeing a documentary about bridges/construction where a footbridge became so dangerous in the winter that people could ski down it. I think that was something to do with the flooring – some kind of textured glass perhaps – rather than the shape.

[Alfred]

22 minutes ago, GarryP said:

a footbridge became so dangerous in the winter that people could ski down it

I presume you mean it became slippery. If it was dangerous walk on it would probably be dangerous to ski on, too!

[GarryP]

Not sure if I mean dangerous, or slippery, or something else.
A ten-foot snow drift may be dangerous to walk on but skiing on it might actually be safer.

I think the Ponte della Costituzione in Venice is the bridge I was thinking of.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/14/architect-behind-venices-slippery-bridge-fined-72000-italian/

[Wosven]

About the design: using a texture with visible patterns, like PixelPest's one, can help to define the area in perspective more easily.

 

About bridge, etc.: They tend to close them when it's too dangerous.
Unfortunatelly, in my town, they had to wait 10-15 years before finding a way to erode the especially strong and robust new type of paving stone/marble they just had redesign the city centre. 
With some sort of Kärcher with really hard sand...
The only way to avoid falling down was to not use smooth soles in rainy weather, or (when forgotten), to follow slowy the few and fine lines of a different material more gripping. The town hall has received complaints from people who have broken limbs...

[Old Bruce]

There is a type of tile used by Vancouver builders for outdoor walkways, this tile is quite slippery when wet. One of Vancouver's nicknames is Raincouver. So for liability reasons there are permanent signs outside of buildings stating that the walkway is slippery when wet.

[Wosven]

Sadly, today, with cars and pollution, the ground become oily and slippery, especially at the end of summer when it begin to rain. I'm not used to it, since I tend to forget and fall... but we won't have this problem this year, since August was cloudy and rainy all the time.

In Prague, they use small rought paving stone, light in color, and it look really nice and robust (they don't seem to move with time... we should send  the craftsmen there for training...).

[Wosven]

14 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

Vancouver builders for outdoor walkways, this tile is quite slippery when wet.

Perhaps they need to contact my town for tips to correct this  

[edit] The new mayor solve this using good old black tarmac when he does some work 😢 [/edit]

[Old Bruce]

Just now, Wosven said:

we should send  the craftsmen there for training...

And Architects from some firms, or schools.

[Wosven]

3 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

And Architects from some firms, or schools.

I completelly agree... there's so much inventivity, resourcefulness and tricks in old houses and buildings, about anything from heating, ventilation, etc. that I'm sad when visiting modern buildings poorly designed.

[keviiinio]

Well, this sparked a lively discussion, what a nice first thread. It's nice to see you're all passionate about nice and accessible urban environments!

As some guessed, the mockup I shared was just a test to try to understand texture scaling. Once I get the floor right, the rest of the details are much easier to do.

I was actually using a brick tile similar to this, but it got totally messed up when I tried to use perspective.

On 8/22/2021 at 11:41 AM, PixelPest said:

You can use a seamless texture but need to duplicate to the estimated aspect ratio of that particular area (Pattern layer can help). Stretching via Perspective grid won´t respect real world camera lens FOVs or other characteristics and properties. Even a rebuilt in 3d with cropped images isn´t easy.

@PixelPest Thanks for the tips, it seems I've stumbled upon something that's much trickier than I expected.

Would you be able to share the steps (or file) you used to achieve the above image? That's already so much better than what I got, and I could probably make something like that work with a bit of creativity.

Maybe this angle it's too extreme, but I have some options over what perspective photo to use.

Thanks everyone

[PixelPest]

Let´s see if this works for you.

1. make new file say 4000x1000px/72dpi

2. place your seamless tile and rasterize - should be labeled "Pixel" now

3. Go Select->Selection From Layer

4. Go Layer->New Pattern Layer From Selection - boom - pattern filled image. 

5. Rasterize will turn into pixel layer - copy&paste into open photo or Export whole image and place

6. Use Perspective Tool to align to perspective. Apply when satisfied. (As I said lens characteristics will not apply) 

 

[keviiinio]

@PixelPest Thanks so much for that. Tried it out, and the results are much better. I think making the big 4000x1000 layer was the key piece I was missing.




I think this angle is pretty extreme, and if I get a photo with a less extreme angle, then maybe I can probably achieve better results.

I tried it out on a different photo, where we want to get an old blocked off laneway reopened, and it works pretty much better there there.

I think with a bit of practice, I can use this method to get some good results.

Thanks for all the help!

 

 

[PixelPest]

Seems you´re on the right track. But don´t destroy your effort with wrong scale; couple with kid are way to small and flower tubs don´t even try to match perspective. And the pavement should run parallel I guess.

[keviiinio]

On 8/25/2021 at 10:31 AM, PixelPest said:

Seems you´re on the right track. But don´t destroy your effort with wrong scale; couple with kid are way to small and flower tubs don´t even try to match perspective. And the pavement should run parallel I guess.

Thanks for the extra tips. I think I'll need to brush up on my perspective skills generally. I always only did 2D stuff before, so mocking up 3D is quite new. Lots to learn.

[keviiinio]

Thought you might like to see some progress thanks to all your tips:

Base image from Apple Maps

 

Proposed new pavement plaza area, new trees, outdoor seating, and a "raised table" at the junction to all indicate a more pedestrian friendly zone.

 

 

[PixelPest]

Make sure to consult an urban forestry and urban greening expert; The survival time of these trees will be very limited. 😢