Fringing and Pixel Spillage after Selection ! Best way to handle it ?

[augustya]

Hi Guys,

Despite doing my best selection, I still get this fringing and Halo effect on my image when I check it against a white background in refine tool.

What do you guys suggest is the best way to handle it ?

Attached is the image.

[DM1]

2 hours ago, augustya said:

What do you guys suggest is the best way to handle it ?

If you output the selection as mask or new layer with mask, it is a simple matter to select the mask layer and use a small soft brush to paint black or white to conceal or reveal details. If you hide or reveal too much, simply switch colours and repeat. It’s non destructive editing.🙂

[augustya]

2 minutes ago, DM1 said:

If you output the selection as mask or new layer with mask, it is a simple matter to select the mask layer and use a small soft brush to paint black or white to conceal or reveal details. If you hide or reveal too much, simply switch colours and repeat. It’s non destructive editing.🙂

But other than that anything else that I need to change in refine tools so tat the edges look more sharp ?. Yes I realize that it is simple matter of manually painting and removing with a normal brush to remove or bring back foreground or background, but that leaves to much for Manual Human Intervention, which does not make the edges look sharp. is there no way that Affinity Photo's algorithm tool which can work to make the edges look sharp then me manually doing it ?

[Paul Mudditt]

1 hour ago, augustya said:

But other than that anything else that I need to change in refine tools so tat the edges look more sharp ?. Yes I realize that it is simple matter of manually painting and removing with a normal brush to remove or bring back foreground or background, but that leaves to much for Manual Human Intervention, which does not make the edges look sharp. is there no way that Affinity Photo's algorithm tool which can work to make the edges look sharp then me manually doing it ?

If I want sharp edges on objects I use the pen tool in smart mode and simply dab dab dab around the outline to create a closed curve. Use the node tool to adjust any nodes as required then convert the curve into a selection. This is especially useful on inanimate objects where straight lines occur. Once you have done it a few times it can be quicker than using the selection tools.

[augustya]

40 minutes ago, Paul Mudditt said:

If I want sharp edges on objects I use the pen tool in smart mode and simply dab dab dab around the outline to create a closed curve. Use the node tool to adjust any nodes as required then convert the curve into a selection. 

So you mean to say, Once I have used Quick Selection Tool and made a selection, then change the Mode to "add" and then use a Pen Tool to Select Around Edges like Collar of Shirt or Sleeve of Shirt anything which has a Proper Symmetry and the selection made by Pen will get added to the earlier selection made by the Quick Selection Tool ? is that what you are saying ?

[DM1]

4 hours ago, augustya said:

Despite doing my best selection

Perhaps you could explain what method you used to make the initial selection as there are many ways to do this.

Also could you show thw the image prior to selection so we can see what the background foreground definition is like.🙂

[augustya]

2 minutes ago, DM1 said:

Perhaps you could explain what method you used to make the initial selection as there are many ways to do this.

Also could you show thw the image prior to selection so we can see what the background foreground definition is like.🙂

I just used the Quick Selection ( I hope that is the term as I am getting confused between Photoshop Jargons and Affnity Photo Jargons) But yes I used a normal Quick Selection Tool. 

[DM1]

Smart select brush

.……and the background?

[augustya]

7 minutes ago, DM1 said:

Smart select brush

.……and the background?

This one...

 

[DM1]

17 hours ago, augustya said:

is there no way that Affinity Photo's algorithm tool which can work to make the edges look sharp then me manually doing it ?

If your original photo is high resolution, has high contrast with background the edges will be sharp. Unfortunately your original photo shows the same fringing around the elbow prior to selection so you will need to do a tidy up on mask (as shown below in second image), or try Paul’s suggestion.

I found that resizing (resampling) the original to 600dpi then doing the selection with Smart Selection brush, switching to refine, setting overlay to white and adjustment to background then painting around the arm gave a better initial result. But it's still extra work. Even with the best algorithm, with low quality in you get low quality out.🙁

[augustya]

5 hours ago, DM1 said:

If your original photo is high resolution, has high contrast with background the edges will be sharp. Unfortunately your original photo shows the same fringing around the elbow prior to selection so you will need to do a tidy up on mask (as shown below in second image), or try Paul’s suggestion.

I found that resizing (resampling) the original to 600dpi then doing the selection with Smart Selection brush, switching to refine, setting overlay to white and adjustment to background then painting around the arm gave a better initial result. But it's still extra work. Even with the best algorithm, with low quality in you get low quality out.🙁

When you say you did resizing (Resampling) to 600 DPI was it increasing the Resolution of the image or decreasing it ?

[DM1]

2 hours ago, augustya said:

When you say you did resizing (Resampling) to 600 DPI was it increasing the Resolution of the image or decreasing it?

Increasing. The one you posted is 844x1500 at 96 dpi.
Or, 1.27Mp hence poor selection outcome. The average phone camera now is 12Mp.
Perhaps your original photo is a higher resolution than the posted image?

[DM1]

Rather than respond to personal message I’ll post the example here as others may wish to comment.

The approach taken in this instance to improve the selection around the right arm was to select the centre section with the pen tool and duplicate it as a separate layer for use later. Having done that the video goes on to show how to switch from pen selection to Smart Selection. In the example after making the Smart Selection I switched back to pen tool to output the selection as a new layer without having to refine it (which is required if in Smart Selection). Again this is just to demonstrate options available with tools. Using Smart Selection and not refining gives a poor result as can be seen. The problem with this photo is that parts of it respond poorly to Smart Selection but other parts extract very well. My final approach would be to use Smart Selection and simply overlay the bad areas with layers from pen selection, as shown in the example (actually I prefer to paint on the mask but that is not what has been asked for😁).

[augustya]

36 minutes ago, DM1 said:

Rather than respond to personal message I’ll post the example here as others may wish to comment.

The approach taken in this instance to improve the selection around the right arm was to select the centre section with the pen tool and duplicate it as a separate layer for use later. Having done that the video goes on to show how to switch from pen selection to Smart Selection. In the example after making the Smart Selection I switched back to pen tool to output the selection as a new layer without having to refine it (which is required if in Smart Selection). Again this is just to demonstrate options available with tools. Using Smart Selection and not refining gives a poor result as can be seen. The problem with this photo is that parts of it respond poorly to Smart Selection but other parts extract very well. My final approach would be to use Smart Selection and simply overlay the bad areas with layers from pen selection, as shown in the example (actually I prefer to paint on the mask but that is not what has been asked for😁).

 

Ok, I have a question here...Instead of going this Hardway where you are first making a selection using a Pen Tool Creating a First(Separate Layer out of it) Then again Making a Second Layer using the Smart Selection Tool and creating a Second different Layer out of it. And increasing the Stack of the Layers, instead why not have the same one Layer where you first make a selection using the Pen tool and then in the Selections Persona change the Mode to Add and the continue selecting the rest of selection using Smart Selection Tool ?

What is the problem with this easier approach ?

[DM1]

1 hour ago, augustya said:

What is the problem with this easier approach ?

As stated above, when you finish the selection using Smart Selection brush, you will need to refine the selection. This will also refine the area selected previously by the pen tool and the end result will be the same as using Smart Selection for the whole image.🙂 The whole purpose of pen selection was to avoid refining the selection which results in the poor definition around the arm. But if you don’t refine you will get poor selection around the rest of the image. This image therefore needs the extra step. Either manually edit the mask (my preference) or replace the bad part of the refined selection with the layer created using pen selection. That was what I attempted to show with the various methods used in the video😁.

[augustya]

16 hours ago, DM1 said:

As stated above, when you finish the selection using Smart Selection brush, you will need to refine the selection. This will also refine the area selected previously by the pen tool and the end result will be the same as using Smart Selection for the whole image.🙂 The whole purpose of pen selection was to avoid refining the selection which results in the poor definition around the arm. But if you don’t refine you will get poor selection around the rest of the image. This image therefore needs the extra step. Either manually edit the mask (my preference) or replace the bad part of the refined selection with the layer created using pen selection. That was what I attempted to show with the various methods used in the video😁.

@DM1 

 You know I tried this but I am having some issues, firstly when I draw lines on the subject with Pen tool and I try to align it properly, it starts breaking into different modes? How is this supposed to work ? I don’t know ? how it is made to work ?

 And is it something that I need to change the mode to maybe keep it in edit mode ? or select something in the Pen mode ?

 What do I need to keep this Settings ? if I just want to make a normal Selection using the pen tool ? 

Please check the screenshots !

 

[DM1]

2 hours ago, augustya said:

but I am having some issues,

Leave the Pen setting as pen. When you close the pen loop double tap the node to join it to the start node.
The handles that appear when you select a node are adjustment handles. You get them when you touch a node or tap a line to create a new node. You can rotate them and or shorten/lengthen them to fine tune curves. Placing nodes closer to each side of the elbow and 'nudging' the line between them with the Apple Pencil should reduce the occurrence of handles but touching any node will make them appear. They can be useful for fine tuning.🙂

Practise and you will soon get the hang of it. Try the smart mode as well. Make lots of small dots around the shape and see what effect you get accuracy wise. A quick effort shown below.

[augustya]

14 minutes ago, DM1 said:

Leave the Pen setting as pen. When you close the pen loop double tap the node to join it to the start node.
The handles that appear when you select a node are adjustment handles. You get them when you touch a node or tap a line to create a new node. You can rotate them and or shorten/lengthen them to fine tune curves. Placing nodes closer to each side of the elbow and 'nudging' the line between them with the Apple Pencil should reduce the occurrence of handles but touching any node will make them appear. They can be useful for fine tuning.🙂

Practise and you will soon get the hang of it. Try the smart mode as well. Make lots of small dots around the shape and see what effect you get accuracy wise. A quick effort shown below.

No Still did not get it. So I keep the First Mode as "Edit" and Second Mode as " Pen" is that what you are saying ?

Please check the screenshot.

 

[DM1]

1 hour ago, augustya said:

So I keep the First Mode as "Edit" and Second Mode as " Pen"

Yes😁but give smart a go too.

[Alfred]

1 hour ago, augustya said:

keep the First Mode as "Edit"

In the screenshot, Edit Mode is off (as it should be). If it were on, the button would have a blue outline.

[augustya]

55 minutes ago, DM1 said:

Yes😁but give smart a go too.

 

49 minutes ago, Alfred said:

In the screenshot, Edit Mode is off (as it should be). If it were on, the button would have a blue outline.

Guys I am still not able to get this thing going ?? How do I get this ? What I am doing is selecting the image then putting the first dot then the second Fit and then the third, then trying to align the lines perfectly to the edges of the hand and in doing so, the nodes Stare breaking out making the lines go haywire !! Do I not need to touch the nodes in between to align the lines perfectly ? If no ?? Then how else do I need to do it ?

 How do I align the lines perfectly to the edges of the hand after I have placed the dots? Where do I need to hold or touch the lines ?

[augustya]

My big problem here is if I have to align the lines to the edge of the subject. How and where do I need to hold and touch the lines so that they start turning according to my intention ?

[Alfred]

2 minutes ago, augustya said:

My big problem here is if I have to align the lines to the edge of the subject. How and where do I need to hold and touch the lines so that they start turning according to my intention ?

Instead of switching in and out of Edit Mode while you have the Pen Tool selected, finish drawing the shape and then choose the Node Tool to edit it. Drag anywhere between two nodes on a curve or a straight line to change the curve: don’t just click without dragging (unless you want to add extra nodes).

[augustya]

21 minutes ago, Alfred said:

Instead of switching in and out of Edit Mode while you have the Pen Tool selected, finish drawing the shape and then choose the Node Tool to edit it. Drag anywhere between two nodes on a curve or a straight line to change the curve: don’t just click without dragging (unless you want to add extra nodes).

Ok so you are saying first do an entire selection by dropping the dots ? even if it is not accurate ! and after I have done that from anywhere in between the curves between two nodes just drag according to desired point but do not click on it ? Just drag it ? After selecting the Node Option ? Am I correct ?

 

[Alfred]

5 minutes ago, augustya said:

Ok so you are saying first do an entire selecting by dropping the dots ? even if it is not accurate ! and after I have done that from anywhere in between the curves between two nodes just drag according to desired point but do not click on it ? Just drag it ? After selecting the Node Option ? Am I correct ?

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m suggesting. I think you might find it easier than hopping in and out of the Pen Tool’s Edit Mode, but try it for yourself and see what you think!