Distance from Top of Page or Top Margin

[Petar Petrenko]

Hi,

As known, we have space before and after to make fixed size room between paragraphs. If we add/remove text from those paragraphs they go up or down. But, there are situations when we want some paragraphs like headings, subheads... to start at a fixed distance from the top of the page or top of the margin (see the 2 pages PDF example in the attachment). In this example, paragraphs with the same letter must start from the same distance from the top of the page no matter if the paragraph above it changes its number of lines.

NOTE: Please, do not offer guide lines on the master page(s), or creating a table or creating separate text blocks. This is about a book with continuous text flow.

Distance.pdf

[MikeW]

I'm certain I am not understanding the issue.

You cannot have both your "B" (or "D") paragraphs "start at a fixed distance from the top of the page...with the same letter must start from the same distance from the top of the page no matter if the paragraph above it changes its number of lines" in your example.

A, C paragraphs are obviously easy as shown.

So, do you want the page 1 paragraphs to then align with page 2's B, D paragraphs?

Or ???

[Petar Petrenko]

13 minutes ago, MikeW said:

So, do you want the page 1 paragraphs to then align with page 2's B, D paragraphs?

Yes.

[walt.farrell]

2 minutes ago, Petar Petrenko said:

Yes.

So you'd want the program to analyze the complete document, find the largest alignment value that's needed for any page, then go back and apply that alignment to all the pages? 

[Petar Petrenko]

2 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

So you'd want the program to analyze the complete document, find the largest alignment value that's needed for any page, then go back and apply that alignment to all the pages? 

No, absolutely not. We will enter the values.

[MikeW]

I'm not using my work computer today so I don't know if this is possible...

So, in your example, the "real" first line that needs to have the style set X distance down from the top (margin/page) is paragraph D.

What I would try is to first identify the longest abstract title, and set the master page grid with its first line down Y distance below that abstract title and set the paragraph D to use the page grid.

But you will still need to scan through and identify that longest title yourself in order to set the baseline grid top.

I haven't done Abstracts for 10 years or so. I've never seen such a set up. Indeed, I've had abstracts where the title is 8/10 lines long. Seems a waste of white space if every other abstract had to begin there.

[Petar Petrenko]

Imagine you setup 4 guide lines on a master page and set paragraphs A, B, C and D to start from there respectively. Always from the fix distance from the top of the page/margin.

[MikeW]

If this request were implemented, you could set them all to utilize the feature...

However, unless paragraph A doesn't ever have two lines, it doesn't need the feature. Nor does paragraph C as space below on the A style takes care of it.

So, in this provided example, just paragraph D needs to have a fixed distance and if the first line of an APub page grid can begin down X amount and its p.style is set to use the page grid, then its space below also takes care of paragraph B. This is how I would deal with the issue if possible.

[Petar Petrenko]

[Old Bruce]

I am thinking of using four linked but overlapping text frames and having Start in Next Frame in the Paragraph Style along with the height offset. It may take me a while to get one set up to post.

[Petar Petrenko]

1 minute ago, Old Bruce said:

four linked but overlapping text frames

Please, see the NOTE at the beggining of the thread.

[Old Bruce]

Okay, so you will have to have your Paragraph labeled A in your PDF start on a new page right? 

I can't really see any way around having to add in empty line returns to take care of different sized paragraphs after Paragraph A. If you would rather do that then it is doable. Space After should do it, just needs some arithmetic.

[Petar Petrenko]

2 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

add in empty line returns

Empty line returns? Why? Do you use line returns instead of space before/after?

I just want to say to Publisher -- start paragraph A 30 mm from the top of the page, paragraph B at 45 mm, paragraph C at 65 mm...

[Old Bruce]

At the moment we can't. We can however achieve the same result with some of the suggestions offered here. 

I do wonder what will happen when paragraph B has 30 mm worth of text. It ends at 75 mm and overlaps paragraph C's star point.

[Petar Petrenko]

Just now, Old Bruce said:

At the moment we can't.

Of course we can't. This is a suggestion for a new feature.

1 minute ago, Old Bruce said:

I do wonder what will happen when paragraph B has 30 mm worth of text. It ends at 75 mm and overlaps paragraph C's star point.

You'll have to analize the text before you set the values.

[MikeW]

Here's Q using my suggestion.

[Petar Petrenko]

1 minute ago, MikeW said:

Here's Q using my suggestion.

And what if the Heading "From Cultural..." from the left page is expanded to 2 or 3 lines (as it usual happens with the authors when making corrections)? You will have to adjust the next paragraph with space before or after.

[MikeW]

The Author paragraph will always start where you see the baseline is on the page. 

[Petar Petrenko]

1 minute ago, MikeW said:

The Author paragraph will always start where you see the baseline is on the page. 

How do you plan to fix it to stay at the same possition if the Heading is expanded to 2 or more elines?

[MikeW]

First, there is room for 6 Title lines in my example. Second, if there was a Title that I later found that had 8 lines, I would just adjust the baseline grid to begin further down and all, every, Author name would automatically move with it.

[MikeW]

Really, you are a professional. Just try it yourself. 

[Petar Petrenko]

1 minute ago, MikeW said:

First, there is room for 6 Title lines in my example.

Of course there is a room for additional lines, but did you try it to expand the Title to 2 (or more) lines? In that case the author will be moved down.

My idea is to avoid additional paragraph adjustments with space before/after if some paragraph changes its length.
It is useful only with a few starting paragraphs, not the whole text.

[MikeW]

Author will ALWAYS start at the baseline grid. It DOESN'T matter how many lines the title has. 

[Petar Petrenko]

Just now, MikeW said:

Author will ALWAYS start at the baseline grid. It DOESN'T matter how many lines the title has. 

I don't want to use baseline grid. I want, in this case, author to start exactly at the ## mm from the top of the page. Same for the Title and other paragraphs by my choice.

[MikeW]

Just now, Petar Petrenko said:

I don't want to use baseline grid. I want, in this case, author to start exactly at the ## mm from the top of the page. Same for the Title and other paragraphs by my choice.

I understand your request. So either you can wait X amount of time for Serif or another company to fulfill that request or get on with it using what is available. 

As shown, what I did meets the requirements. You can set the baseline to begin X number of whatever units down and it works as desired.