Losing applied text styles when updating TOC (Table of Contents) or just breathing on it - advise?

[TheOtherRoland]

Over the last few weeks, whenever I was working on my table of contents, I kept losing the formatting (text styles) I'd applied; the logic of working with those TOC styles seems a bit unclear to begin with, but I'd recently managed to set it up to look rather nice. And then...

...I added one more separately styled title to it and the styling for the entire TOC  was lost; back to square one. That's happened about 4043 times now.

Q. Is there any way to keep the TOC looking civilized and not always defaulting back to its primordial state, knowmsayin?

Locking would defeat the purpose — although the contents are now all complete and properly page assigned, etc. I just want to protect what I already have... Maybe TOC insurance?

[Dan C]

Hi @TheOtherRoland,

Sorry to hear you're having trouble!

Can you please confirm the steps you're taking in the app when the Text Style is being lost?

I ask as there is a report in our system from the original beta version of Publisher where this was raised and closed as 'By Design' by our developers, with the following explanation;

"When you update the TOC, the text is completely regenerated and replaced. If you want to make persistent changes you need to update the styles. That's one reason we create and apply so many text styles"

Many thanks in advance

[TheOtherRoland]

I was creating the TOC as I was editing so that I could be sure where the pages were going to land for each section. Anytime I updated, the list "regenerated," as you said, with the default styles replacing my own. My assumption was that by assigning a style, it would stick (like the content). Not in my case. The Index seems to be holding though.

So I guess that's the standard issue behavior then. I had the TOC finished the other day, however, and it again lost its formatting. No idea why. I blame God.

[walt.farrell]

2 hours ago, TheOtherRoland said:

My assumption was that by assigning a style, it would stick (like the content).

No. The TOC is assigned specific styles, based on the TOC name you specify in the TOC panel, and the text styles you choose to include in the TOC by selecting them in the TOC panel.

Thus, if you have a TOC banned TOC 1 and you include the text style Heading 1, you'll get a set of Text Styles named TOC 1 Heading 1, TOC 1 Heading 1 Entry, and TOC 1 Heading 1 Number (and possibly dune others).

These text styles can be found in the Text Styles panel, but only after the TOC had been created, and only when the text cursor is within the generated TOC.

To change the appearance of the TOC you generate it, and then you edit those text styles. Those edits will be maintained when you make further changes to the document and tell Publisher to update the TIC.

[TheOtherRoland]

What you wrote: I've actually figured out a lot of this stuff over the last two months.

My main problem (aside from wearing too many hats) is with performance consistency. Sometimes I don't know if I'm the one doing something wrong, or if the application is broken in regards to that option. At this stage, being still a new app., there's a 50/50 chance of it swinging toward either side.

But I'm not worried, I'm used to adversity (touring musician and artist by trade) so I'm used to improvising to get the results I need.

[Michail]

On 5/27/2021 at 1:55 PM, Dan C said:

"When you update the TOC, the text is completely regenerated and replaced. If you want to make persistent changes you need to update the styles. That's one reason we create and apply so many text styles"

I have also experienced that tables of contents lose their formatting after updating.

However, the new formatting is not the default formatting, but something different each time. I suspect it is formatting that I last used when working in the document.

I have found the following workaround for me:
Before I update the table of contents, I deselect everything and reset to the default values . Only then do I update the table of contents. However, I can't imagine that this is the way it's supposed to be.

Nevertheless, strange things happen all the time. For example, the fill characters between the entry and the page number disappear when I update. Only when I click on the corresponding text style do they reappear.
Or entries before the table of contents are integrated into the table of contents, although the corresponding option is not active.

So at the moment this is still a rather shaky affair.

[TheOtherRoland]

I worked with/against the TOC styling thing a bit a few days ago and was able to get the formatting to stay. I think I found the answer by switching the "based on" option.

It's confusing at best because the names that I change the styles to do not actually show up in the styles except at the top. So intuitive this is not.

The regular styles are far easier to work with. But then again, working with this software for a while will probably reveal a few workarounds, or clues to success.

[walt.farrell]

7 minutes ago, TheOtherRoland said:

It's confusing at best because the names that I change the styles to

You're not supposed to change the text style names for the TOC entries. You can use whatever text style names you want for the document text, and choose whichever of them to include in the TOC. But if you include a text style named XYZ in the TOC named TOC1, then Publisher will create several TOC1 XYZ ... text style names. You can modify the definitions of each of the TOC text styles, but you must keep the same text style names, and they must remained "based on" the names Publisher based them on.

[TheOtherRoland]

Is that in the manual? I've tried to find some in depth info on TOC and Index; it's pretty comprehensive, but there's still a few things missing in terms of limitations, etc.

[walt.farrell]

7 hours ago, TheOtherRoland said:

Is that in the manual?

Sorry; no idea. I've never looked, as it seemed obvious to me that it was the intended way of working with the function.

[Daniel Gibert]

On 6/7/2021 at 7:54 PM, Michail said:

I have found the following workaround for me:
Before I update the table of contents, I deselect everything and reset to the default values . Only then do I update the table of contents. However, I can't imagine that this is the way it's supposed to be.

I've been having this issues with TOC styles and so far this is the only workaround that has worked for me. For my experience, it seems that there is a bug with TOC styles on which updating the TOC overrides the TOC styles with the size and font weight and align of the last used hand configured text frame. It preserve the margin, tab stops and colors of the style, but for any other parameter are modified. Note that the style itself is not modified. It simply applied the style but with those parameters changed.

In my last project, that resulted on a TOC with font size 34pt because just made a text with that size hand-introduced before updating the TOC.

So it seems that TOC updating is looking for the last used font settings instead of the defined styles when updating, as if it were a new blank text frame, and at same time, try to use the TOC styles. The result is a incoherent mix of settings.

[TheOtherRoland]

5 hours ago, Daniel Gibert said:

I've been having this issues with TOC styles and so far this is the only workaround that has worked for me. For my experience, it seems that there is a bug with TOC styles on which updating the TOC overrides the TOC styles with the size and font weight and align of the last used hand configured text frame. It preserve the margin, tab stops and colors of the style, but for any other parameter are modified. Note that the style itself is not modified. It simply applied the style but with those parameters changed.

In my last project, that resulted on a TOC with font size 34pt because just made a text with that size hand-introduced before updating the TOC.

So it seems that TOC updating is looking for the last used font settings instead of the defined styles when updating, as if it were a new blank text frame, and at same time, try to use the TOC styles. The result is a incoherent mix of settings.

Yeah, I've now worked out a way to make the styles stick to the TOC (kind of arduous and non-intuitive) but I don't see those styles behaving with nearly the same ease as the non-TOC styles that I'm using everywhere else. The edits/changes I made may be logical, but they are outside the box, so to speak, for what the other styles ask us to do.

So yeah, I don't buy into the fact that I'm doing something wrong and everyone else is just having a grand old time of being super successful at TOC creation.

[Old Bruce]

I have pretty much given up on trying to understand how to make the generated ToC styles match what I want as a Table of Contents in the document.

I am fairly Old School in that I will set up (in a separate document) a dummy ToC. There seems to be no way to copy those two or three styles over to the actual working publication's ToC generated ToC Styles.

I must be missing something.

[TheOtherRoland]

1 hour ago, Old Bruce said:

I have pretty much given up on trying to understand how to make the generated ToC styles match what I want as a Table of Contents in the document.

I am fairly Old School in that I will set up (in a separate document) a dummy ToC. There seems to be no way to copy those two or three styles over to the actual working publication's ToC generated ToC Styles.

I must be missing something.

We are old and tired. It is time to leave such things to the new generation and hope that they will someday succeed where we have failed. But now I grow tired and must rest.

To the future. [coughing]

😃

 

[Daniel Gibert]

I can confirm that in the last  1.10.4 version  the TOC styles are still completely bonkers. And that I have find the solution (probably)

Each time I update the TOC, the styles got bananas. And I'm using all the correct indications by Affinity.

• I use the automatic TOC styles that Publisher generate on TOC creation.
• I modify the automatic TOC styles to my needs preserving their original name.
• I update the TOC and then all styles are being modified with what it seems random attributes. 
• It does not have consistency. If I quit the app, reopen and repeat the process, or even if I update after being working with the document, the results are completely different.

I tried to find a logic to the changes in the styles. I noticed that in the TOC style panel, indicates that it is using "Table of content 1: Style name + some other style…"

So it seems Publisher is adding the last used styles to the TOC styles each time I update. That explains the lack of consistency on this random behavior. And although there is a button to reset/clean the format of the styles (The recyle icon just at the right of the used style info), it does not get rid of all the changes it added.

I tried the following. I made a random text frame, wrote something and then I put both paragraph and text styles to [No style]. That way this configuration becomes the default text configuration. Then I went to the TOC, updated it and VOILÁ, my TOC styles where there perfectly formatted as it should have been from start. Nothing was added to the TOC style table.

So, definitively this is a bug on which updating the TOC mixes TOC styles with the last styles used on the document.

I hope you all can reproduce this and make those TOCs work well. And that Affinity read this and check over it.

 

[undercovergypsy]

I find that this feature is badly designed - what a disappointment. I have reset and reinstalled - to no avail. Now, I don't have any text styles...

I love that all three affinity programs are connected, but publisher has quirks in the areas I need it to not be quirky. I also grow tired of fighting the TOC and will move on to another software.

 

[Daniel Gibert]

Hi. I'm uploading a video capture so at Affinity they can understand better the issue, and how i'm getting rid of it (And you can too, probably).

Please, note that the solution of clicking the clear format icon does not solve the issue, simply correct it in an easy way. The bug that make the TOC styles going bananas continues to be there. (That is, updating the TOC adds extra format modifications to the TOC styles)

Also note, be sure to have the Character and Paragraph Styles set to [no style] before updating the TOC to minimize the amount of trash added after updating. I have been solving this issue with this method but i'd love to not having to do.

[TheOtherRoland]

I found a solution and it's holding. But still, formatting the text in the TOC should be as simple and intuitive as doing it anywhere else.

That is the high water mark for the programmers: MAKE TEXT STYLING THE TOC EASY. (Not a game of chance where everything is in flux and therefore unreliable)

[Antonio Costanzo]

The solution that Daniel Gilbert proposed still works. It means, among other things, that the bug is still there.

[Daniel Gibert]

12 hours ago, Antonio Costanzo said:

The solution that Daniel Gilbert proposed still works. It means, among other things, that the bug is still there.

In fact now I use an easiest quick 4 step solution, that always work:

• Select nothing on the page (Click outside anything)
• On the Text styles be sure to have [No Style] selected as Paragraph and Character Style
• On the menu, go to Edit > Defaults > Factory Reset
• Then you can update your TOC without problem. (And breath on relief)

This has been working correctly for me. The defaults you are resetting are basically the info of what the last used style/text is, that seems to be applied to the TOC when you updated it. This 4 steps makes sure that there is no last used styles in memory before updating the TOC, so it will use the TOC styles without adding changes.

Not only is easy to solve and save a lot of work (Just do the 4 steps before updating TOC). Also it shows what the nature the bug is. Basically, last used paragraph format is being “added” to the TOC formatting when you update it, mixing it with the TOC styles. It is for this that the bug is not consistent and results are so random.

[Antonio Costanzo]

Muchas gracias para estos quatro passos, Daniel.

[TheOtherRoland]

Thanks, Daniel, for helping to identify the cause of the problem. This should make it easier for the coders to codify. (See what I did there? )

[Lukc666]

Thank you. I've kept wondering if I was doing something wrong or it was a bug. Good to see it wasn't just me, and elegant "hack-fix".