Jump to content

Please allow different/independent transparency setting for stroke and fill of an object


Recommended Posts

I think it would be quite helpful in some design situations if you you could independently use different transparency settings for the stroke and the fill of one and the same object: say a fill in Multiply mode with 60% opacity and simultaneously a stroke of a certain thickness that's set to Erase mode (or Colour with 80% opacity – or whatever).

While you could of course achieve the same visual results with multiple stacked copies of an object which are just set differently each it will obviously get cumbersome quickly when you want to easily transform something that's visually appearing as one object but actually is a stack of several ones.

If I remember right, you can do these independent settings in InDesign and Illustrator – so it shouldn't be rocket science after all.

Lest I forget: Independent settings of this kind (plus ones for transformations) woud be highly appreciated as well for additional strokes and fills of an object which have been added via the Appearance panel.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

We can already use different opacity/transparency settings for the fill and the stroke.4056DA35-F083-4D57-B481-2681300C8DCE.jpeg.e29ddd366f88eee4436a8801b96821b8.jpeg

As far as I’m aware you can only set the blend mode at the layer level, so you couldn’t apply a fill in Multiply mode and a stroke in Erase mode to the same object.

Alfred online2long.gif
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher for Windows 1.9.2 • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.9.2 • Designer for iPad 1.9.2 • iPadOS 14.4.2 (iPad Air 2)

Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Lorox said:

I think it would be quite helpful in some design situations if you you could independently use different transparency settings for the stroke and the fill of one and the same object: say a fill in Multiply mode with 60% opacity and simultaneously a stroke of a certain thickness that's set to Erase mode (or Colour with 80% opacity – or whatever).

 

8 minutes ago, Alfred said:

As far as I’m aware you can only set the blend mode at the layer level, so you couldn’t apply a fill in Multiply mode and a stroke in Erase mode to the same object.

Unless, I'm misunderstanding the request here, all the above is doable in the Appearance Panel

Due to the fact that Boris Johnson is now our Prime Minister, punctuation, spelling and grammar will never be worried about ever again.  We now have far bigger problems to be worried about.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Alfred said:

We can already use different opacity/transparency settings for the fill and the stroke.

Hi Alfred,

thanks for reminding me! I actually missed that option as it seems to be available only in the Swatches palette (correct me if I'm wrong!).

That being said it strikes me as being one of the inconsistencies which we still find in the Affinity UI – why on earth should I just look (only) there? (As it is related to the object itself or as such and not to the way (sliders, wheel or swatches) I assign colour to fills and strokes)

Quote

As far as I’m aware you can only set the blend mode at the layer level, so you couldn’t apply a fill in Multiply mode and a stroke in Erase mode to the same object.

I just see that you can actually set the Blend modes differently in the Appearance panel – but somehow setting just the stroke to Erase doesn't seem to work anyway. (Other blend mode work fine, though).

As of now it's so easy to miss those (useful) options for setting things as they tend to be scattered over different panels – I wish this could be "unified" and made more logical in the future.

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, carl123 said:

Unless, I'm misunderstanding the request here, all the above is doable in the Appearance Panel

As I just wrote it sort of does (I did miss it up to now) – you CAN set the Blend mode but you CANNOT set any individual opacity (percentage) there... (this seems to be possible only in the Layers panel)

Also I somehow cannot set JUST the stroke to Erase...

Setting just the fill to Erase in the Appearance panel doesn't work either – it only becomes invisible (just as the stroke) and doesn't erase anything below. Looks like you have to go to the Layers panel and set the entire object to Erase if you need something of this kind...

Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Lorox said:

As I just wrote it sort of does (I did miss it up to now) – you CAN set the Blend mode but you CANNOT set any individual opacity (percentage) there... (this seems to be possible only in the Layers panel)

Opacity is adjustable directly in the Appearance Panel via a slider or if you want to specify a precise percentage just activate the Swatches Panel

 

opacity.png

Due to the fact that Boris Johnson is now our Prime Minister, punctuation, spelling and grammar will never be worried about ever again.  We now have far bigger problems to be worried about.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, carl123 said:

Opacity is adjustable directly in the Appearnace Panel via a slider or if you want to specify a precise percentage just activate the Swatches Panel

Yeah, you're right – I must look like an absolute idiot...  BUT coming from decades of InDesign I seem to accustomed to (all) settings of that kind being sort of aggregated in ONE logical and mostly intuitively plausible location where you can do what you need and have it all in sight. To me it is a weak point of the Affinity apps (as much as I like to use them!) that (useful!) settings which are closely related are scattered over several locations which you then have to visit and work one at a time to finally get what you want.

I could try to get used to it, I will admit, but on the other hand it doesn't seem completely out of the way, that the Affinity apps' UI still tends to be somewhat quirky in places...

Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Lorox said:

I just see that you can actually set the Blend modes differently in the Appearance panel – but somehow setting just the stroke to Erase doesn't seem to work anyway. (Other blend mode work fine, though).

You might want to log that as a bug as I can't see why the Erase blend mode "works" the way it does in the Appearance Panel. 

Like you, I would expect it to do something completely different to what it does now

Due to the fact that Boris Johnson is now our Prime Minister, punctuation, spelling and grammar will never be worried about ever again.  We now have far bigger problems to be worried about.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, carl123 said:

You might want to log that as a bug as I can't see why the Erase blend mode "works" the way it does in the Appearance Panel. 

Like you, I would expect it to do something completely different to what it does now

That inconsistency has been questioned before.

Serif replied that the erasing happening only within the context of the object while the other blend modes are not restricted in that way, is "by design" rather than a bug.

As I've often said, that phrase "by design" often makes most sense when translated to "an unforeseen consequence of the software design."

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, anon2 said:

Serif replied that the erasing happening only within the context of the object while the other blend modes are not restricted in that way, is "by design" rather than a bug.

I, for one, consider this a Good Thing™.

42 minutes ago, anon2 said:

As I've often said, that phrase "by design" often makes most sense when translated to "an unforeseen consequence of the software design."

In this context I'd argue that it's the logical consequence of where this function has been located. I.e. "buried" in the individual attribute settings of an object. To me, it implies that these settings are meant to interact primarily within the selected object only.

Whereas settings that should affect other objects are located elsewhere.

Example use: a "post stamp" kind of thingies:
ade_stroke_erase.png.b07b15f5e571452f753a35f13ca79787.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, loukash said:

I, for one, consider this a Good Thing™.

In this context I'd argue that it's the logical consequence of where this function has been located. I.e. "buried" in the individual attribute settings of an object. To me, it implies that these settings are meant to interact primarily within the selected object only.

Whereas settings that should affect other objects are located elsewhere.

That would imply that you think it is a mistake that the other blend modes are not being restricted to the object only.

Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, loukash said:

In this context I'd argue that it's the logical consequence of where this function has been located. I.e. "buried" in the individual attribute settings of an object. To me, it implies that these settings are meant to interact primarily within the selected object only.

Mmhh... I was wondering for what kind ob object this might actually make sense and you're probably right: there are objects imaginable (see screenshot), where it's coming in handy to limit the Erase property to the object itself.

On the other hand I'd still think it useful if you could use just an object's stroke to erase everything below it... You possibly cannot have it all, can you? It might get really mixed up if both modes were available at the same time...

Bildschirmfoto 2021-05-03 um 17.52.12.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, anon2 said:

That would imply that you think it is a mistake that the other blend modes are not being restricted to the object only.

Not at all. How did you come to that conclusion?
"Erase" is quite a special mode, literally destructive, so to speak. It is only logical that its effect stops at the bottommost appearance layer of an object.
Keep also in mind that you can still affect the Erase mode's "destructivity" by adjusting the color Opacity value. Many fine-tuning opportunities in there! I like it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, loukash said:

Many fine-tuning opportunities in there!

Indeed! Once you've discovered (and remembered) them all it's certainly fun to check what you can actually do with them. Maybe I still have to shake off all these expectations of where exactly these diverse settings should be accessible when these (esxpectations) seem to derive from years and years of working in the Adobe apps... Teaching new tricks to an old horse can be a bit exasperating sometimes...

Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, loukash said:

Not at all. How did you come to that conclusion?

You seemed to be arguing that the blend mode of an attribute of an object should be applied only in the internal construction of the object's appearance, and not be applied to the blending of the object with the underlying scene. The only attribute blend mode that actually behaves with that restriction is Erase, so I thought you must consider it to be bad for the other attribute blend modes to not be restricted.

An example where the an object's blend mode is Normal but its stroke is being multiplied with the underlying scene and not only being multiplied with the object's fill:

 

9391351_Screenshot2021-05-03at17_43_02.thumb.png.4def922059500fb74f35b3609f940356.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Lorox said:

Maybe I still have to shake off all these expectations of where exactly these diverse settings should be accessible when these (esxpectations) seem to derive from years and years of working in the Adobe apps

This is what I call "getting rid of the Schmadobe Mindset™" :D
As in: Been there done that, too.

2 minutes ago, Lorox said:

Teaching new tricks to an old horse can be a bit exasperating sometimes

I simply decided to take my time and having fun while I'm at it.
Never had that fun in the decades of using all the "other" apps, perhaps with the exception of Freehand 9 (the latter as long as I didn't have to export to PDF, that is).

32 minutes ago, Lorox said:

I'd still think it useful if you could use just an object's stroke to erase everything below it... You possibly cannot have it all, can you?

You can, but:

Hierarchy matters!

To erase everything below, the "Erase" mode layer must be on top level.
That's definitely "by design", and rightly so.

In other words, if you want to exclude objects from being erased, you put all the other objects incl the eraser into a group/layer. Anything outside and below that layer/group will not be affected. This is a pretty straightforward workflow. (unlike e.g. in AI where I have to look up every time what the exact meaning of those blending option checkboxes is…)

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, loukash said:

Never had that fun in the decades of using all the "other" apps, perhaps with the exception of Freehand 9 (the latter as long as I didn't have to export to PDF, that is).

You have a point here – regrettably Freehand wasn't too good at exporting to PDF (but eventually you COULD establish a proper workflow and get your – generally working – PDFs to your printers' shops). Can't remember anymore, though, if that actually required FH MX to work... I think, however, I eventually switched to InDesign from FH9...

For me working with transparency was sort of awkward in FH and so way back then I didn't use the concept very often. That has always been so much better in the Adobe apps (at least in my opinion).
BTW (as I just think of it): Freehand already had conical gradients (just as Affinity has now) decades ago and it has always been quite a pain in the butt to achieve something similar in AI (Adobe didn't seem to care, though...). But then, thanks to Designer, Photo and Publisher, today it's me who doesn't care anymore if they finally implemented the option...

But as you say: it IS mostly fun to work in the Affinity apps – especially regarding transparency – and I do not regret having (except for legacy files/projects) switched to Affinity. You have to get the hang of it, though, as the Serif/Affinity mindset IS quite different in certain aspects of doing some things (however "normal" they may seem at first).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please note there is currently a delay in replying to some post. See pinned thread in the Questions forum. These are the Terms of Use you will be asked to agree to if you join the forum. | Privacy Policy | Guidelines | We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.