Bullets almost impossible to get working....

[slaytex]

I've been pullling my hair out to get the bullets to work (justify correctly)...this feature in Affinity software is... one of the worst. I spent 30 minutes trying to get it to work (while on a deadline) - and I'm trying to use Affinity Publisher rather than InDesign - cause I really want to support this company for their fantastic products! ... that said ... not being able to get the bullets to work... this is just...not ok. And the tutorials online are horrendous... The guy doing it doesn't even show how to align them... really unfortunate. No tutorial or thread here shows how to actually make them work...and the thread I found has TONS of users complaining about how difficult they are to align correctly.... Can anyone show us how they work? How to align them? ... seriously... this is a huge thing - even though it seems like a small thing. 

I'd like to convince people (designers) that Affinity Publisher is better than InDesign...but when they run into issues like this... THIS SMALL THING... makes the difference... they WON'T be switching to Affinity. Why would they if such a small thing is so hard to do? 

Edited April 16, 2021 by slaytex
needed more info

[firstdefence]

Tell us more about what you mean by align, explain your issue and or show some examples/screenshots.

[loukash]

33 minutes ago, slaytex said:

not being able to get the bullets to work

Rather than just ranting, it would help if you would post an example document of what you're trying to achieve.
Then you might actually get some help.

[slaytex]

"Rather than just ranting" - sometimes you need to let the developers know what the issue is.... and if this is in the form of a rant... well - sorry...long day. After spending 1 hour yesterday, plus another hour today trying to get this to work... sometimes you're just fed up and frustrated (I'm sure you all never ever feel this way)... When I'm this frustrated... I will at times end up writing a rant. I'm from LA...it's what we do. A user should not need this much "support" assistance and help getting bullets to work.

I've attached a video.

From the tutorials I've seen... you need to change the attributes here:

 

 

To be fair...I've been using Illustrator, Photoshop and InDesign for ... well, a LONG time - since the 90's....but I'm a UI and industrial designer...so even though I have a design degree from a school in Pasadena, I haven't used InDesign for years... but creating bullets in InDesign is far easier. My tools are Rhino, Figma, Sketch, Photoshop, Illustrator - etc.

Sorry for the rant. But jeesh. Numbered lists...who would have known?

 

 

 

 

[slaytex]

So, I've pulled up my sleeves and dived into the styles..and I'm figuring out that they work like CSS on the web. One style can cascade down to the others... so I'll be continuing to learn how this works...and I'm (somewhat) confident that I'll get there in regards to the bullets...we'll see.

[MikeW]

Set a single tab at 0.5"

Set the Left Indent to 0.5"

Set the First Line Indent to a negative amount, in this example, -0.5"

Make sure there is a single tab between the number or bullet and the first character of the text.

Does this work as desired?

[lacerto]

(...)

[firstdefence]

4 hours ago, slaytex said:

"Rather than just ranting" - sometimes you need to let the developers know what the issue is.... and if this is in the form of a rant... well - sorry...long day. After spending 1 hour yesterday, plus another hour today trying to get this to work... sometimes you're just fed up and frustrated (I'm sure you all never ever feel this way)... When I'm this frustrated... I will at times end up writing a rant. I'm from LA...it's what we do. A user should not need this much "support" assistance and help getting bullets to work.

I've attached a video.

From the tutorials I've seen... you need to change the attributes here:

 

 

To be fair...I've been using Illustrator, Photoshop and InDesign for ... well, a LONG time - since the 90's....but I'm a UI and industrial designer...so even though I have a design degree from a school in Pasadena, I haven't used InDesign for years... but creating bullets in InDesign is far easier. My tools are Rhino, Figma, Sketch, Photoshop, Illustrator - etc.

Sorry for the rant. But jeesh. Numbered lists...who would have known?

 

 

 

 

 

[loukash]

9 hours ago, slaytex said:

sometimes you're just fed up and frustrated (I'm sure you all never ever feel this way)

Well, I do hear you for sure. ;)

9 hours ago, slaytex said:

creating bullets in InDesign is far easier

The difference to ID (CS5.5 here) is that 1) you don't have to edit a list using that annoying modal window (its "preview" checkbox notwithstanding), and thus 2) you don't need those duplicated Left/1st Indent fields. Which is what likely makes the "ID method" seemingly (but not really) "easier" at first, because we've all been brainwashed by the Schmadobe Mindset™…

Instead, in Publisher all necessary fields are in the live floating/docked Paragraph panel, so you can adjust all parameters (the list mode & Left/1st indent) on the fly.

By the way, just yesterday I've figured out how to format bulleted lists with the bullet being outside the text frame a.k.a. negative indent:

Take that, SchminDesign!

[walt.farrell]

9 hours ago, slaytex said:

So, I've pulled up my sleeves and dived into the styles..and I'm figuring out that they work like CSS on the web. One style can cascade down to the others... so I'll be continuing to learn how this works...and I'm (somewhat) confident that I'll get there in regards to the bullets...we'll see.

Don't the built-in Text Styles (Bullet 1 or Numbered 1, for example) work just like you want. (Or the Bullet and Numbered selections on the Context Toolbar?)

 

[lepr]

@slaytex: formatting list items in Affinity is quite simple when you realise the following points.

The left indent of a list item is affecting the text that comes after the bullet or item number and spacer (which is an automatically inserted tab).

The first line indent is relative to the left edge of the text frame, not the left indent of text, and that controls the indent of the bullet or item number.

The tab control in the Bullets and Numbering section of the paragraph panel will override the left indent for the first line of a list item, so it is best set to 0 unless that effect is desired.

 

 

[lacerto]

(...)

 

[loukash]

30 minutes ago, Lagarto said:

These are however mere tricks.

Hm.
Aren't we used to using "tricks" when it comes to designing "beyond the bounds"? I mean, anyone old enough here to remember what was actually possible with Aldus PageMaker 3 and 4, or QXP 3…? (Me usually working on a PowerBook 140 that I was borrowing from my then-girlfriend who shared it with her brother… :D)

[MikeW]

An exception with Q are bullets and numbering can hang outside of a text frame. Another has to do with the use of hung characters using a hanging style (mostly useful for drop caps, hung punctuation that hang outside a text box).

That said, I still usually use what we all did back in the VP days in that the body's text frame had all text indented and hung paragraphs and/or characters simply had less an indent.

[lacerto]

(...)

[MikeW]

Nah, started with the Gem version in 1989. Used the Windows versions through CVP 10. AndI do have CVP 10 installed here and use it X number of times a year. 

[MikeW]

Oh. Yes, all the versions had much the same capabilities as regards the issue at hand.

Never had issues with fonts.

[lacerto]

(...)

[lacerto]

(...)

[MikeW]

Windows 3 came out in 1990 and ATM was then available. 

But ya gotta love editing those Gem VP width tables. Got good at it.

[slaytex]

8 hours ago, loukash said:

Hm.
Aren't we used to using "tricks" when it comes to designing "beyond the bounds"? I mean, anyone old enough here to remember what was actually possible with Aldus PageMaker 3 and 4, or QXP 3…? (Me usually working on a PowerBook 140 that I was borrowing from my then-girlfriend who shared it with her brother… :D)

I was a total expert in Pagemaker...until Freehand came around the bend.

[slaytex]

Thanks everyone... I'll keep doing it...

When I was 11... I learned Wordstar.... now that was actually one of the oldest "page layout" apps... on DOS.

[Andy05]

Now I feel old.

10 hours ago, Lagarto said:

AFM metrics were from Adobe

3 hours ago, slaytex said:

Wordstar.... now that was actually one of the oldest "page layout" apps... on DOS.

Anyone else remembering doing layouts without any early WYSIYG at all (whereas the "G" stood for "guess" rather than "get")? Anyone else remembering these things (I still have one lying around over here for sentimental reasons):

I used to have some pen&paper next to my keyboard for taking notes about the layout (where is what column starting, where ending etc.) in order to save that expensive paper when developing the exposed parts in the darkroom later on...

[loukash]

1 hour ago, Andy05 said:

Anyone else remembering these things (I still have one lying around over here for sentimental reasons)

Is that a Diatype disk? We had a Diatype at the art school in the 80s. That was our only way to get sharp typesetting for free. Apart from Letraset/Mecanorma lettering…

[Andy05]

13 minutes ago, loukash said:

Is that a Diatype disk? We had a Diatype at the art school in the 80s. That was our only way to get sharp typesetting for free. Apart from Letraset/Mecanorma lettering…

It's a font disk (Bauhaus Lt. and Bd., Ultra Bodoni standard and It.) for an AM International Varityper Comp/edit Phototypesetter.