Problem with images without color profile

[Gabe]

There will be a warning when this gets fixed but I can't tell when this is gonna happen though. We can't provide an ETA for bug fixes. 

[Verso Fab]

Thank you for your answer, Gabe !

[Rolbrecht]

Hi everyone,

I found the topic with un-profiled pictures, e.g. from mobile phones or copies from the internet, is bigger than expected. A problem arises when calibrated monitors are used. I am a Windows user and just address the situation there:

In Windows under Color Management it can be checked “use my settings for this device”. When this box is checked Windows uses the custom calibrated color profile. Unchecked, Windows uses its own profile (WCS).

1. When WCS profile is used (“use my settings for this device” = unchecked) un-profiled pictures look the same with all programs, e.g. AF, Browsers, Xnview, …

2. When “use my settings for this device” = checked (WCS = OFF and calibrated profiles are used) un-profiled pictures look OK on Browsers and Xnview, but flat (insufficient saturation, contrast, color shift) in AF or Photoshop.

Consequences:

A customer wants an un-profiled photo, e.g. from a mobile phone, to be enhanced. Of cause I use a calibrated monitor and load the photo into AF, where it appears flat. Colors, saturation, … are adjusted  and while saving the photo a profile is attached. As long as the customer uses a calibrated monitor its fine. However, if he uses a non-calibrated monitor (mostly the case) the photo appears, e.g. too saturated.
The photo will also appear too saturated on the Internet, independent, if the monitor is calibrated or not.

Solution:

I don’t know what color management Microsoft is using so that un-profiled pictures appear the same with all kinds of programs, like AF, PS, Xnview, Browsers.  Would it be possible to provide some kind of LUT that could be enabled or disabled when an un-profiled picture is introduced into AF? Or the LUT could be automatically added as a separate layer?

[laurentia]

28 minutes ago, Rolbrecht said:

I don’t know what color management Microsoft is using so that un-profiled pictures appear the same with all kinds of programs, like AF, PS, Xnview, Browsers.  Would it be possible to provide some kind of LUT that could be enabled or disabled when an un-profiled picture is introduced into AF? Or the LUT could be automatically added as a separate layer?

Hi,

By default, Windows uses sRGB.
For the solution, it's sufficient that the user has the choice of the profile to be assigned exactly as in PS when the right box is checked.

[Gabe]

43 minutes ago, Rolbrecht said:

2. When “use my settings for this device” = checked (WCS = OFF and calibrated profiles are used) un-profiled pictures look OK on Browsers and Xnview, but flat (insufficient saturation, contrast, color shift) in AF or Photoshop.

It sounds like you have not set up your colour management properly. You only need to add your profile in the Devices tab, and leave the Advanced > Device profile to sRGB. https://pcmonitors.info/articles/using-icc-profiles-in-windows/

[Rolbrecht]

Thank you for your feedback.

I checked the link and read the information carefully, but couldn’t find a difference to what I am doing to calibrate my system. Maybe I still overlook something. Attached are two pictures showing what I stated above. (Verso Fab,  April 16 demonstrates a similar color difference.)

To produce the pictures, the Internet Paletton.com color theme was copied, saved as un-profiled file and opened in AF. 

In the first picture, the calibrated ICC-Profile (CW243W…) is enabled  (box “Eigene Einstellungen….” is checked)  -> AF displays the color theme differently than the Browser (left) or Xnview (right).

 

In the picture underneath, the Standard Window profile is used (box “Eigene Einstellungen….” is un-checked). -> The color theme is shown on all programs the same.

Obviously, Xnview can handle un-profiled files in a way, so that they appear like the original (left) even if the system uses a calibrated ICC-profile (first picture).

[Gabe]

The only other thing I can think off is that the calibration/ICC profile just did not go well. If both our app and Photoshop(or any other colour managed apps) show this "desaturated" image, the problem will be with the ICC. 

[Rolbrecht]

The calibration/ICC profile I just generated newly with the x-rite device and I guess it is OK. Intrestingly, when I save the "desaturated" image with AF, AF attaches a profile and this image looks then in Xnview just the same. Also "desaturated". Maybe there is a problem with the graphics card (RTX2060S). I changed the driver without any effect.

Anyhow, thank's for your feedback.

[Komatös]

@Rolbrecht When saving, Affinity Photo uses the colour profile that is/was used when the image document was created, 
XNView uses the embedded colour profile for the display of image documents if possible.

[Rolbrecht]

I guess I found the explanation what is happening with un-tagged (un-profiled) images:

- AF assigns only colors of the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 color space to un-tagged images.

- PS and other programs, e.g. Xnview assign colors of a wider color space, I guess AdobeRGB(1998) to un-tagged images.

 

Reasoning:

A. Image 1 shows the same color 2d882d in sRGB61966-2.1 (right) and AdobeRGB(81998) (left). Obviously, 2d882d is outside the gamut of sRGB. Changes in AF's Color Preferences, “Rendering intend” have no effect.

B. An image with AdobeRGB(1998) color space was created in AF and PS and filled with color 2d882d.

C. A copy was made from the Internet www.paletton.com color theme and was pasted into the AF and PS files (image 2).

D. Image 2 shows the summarized result. AF only considers the sRGB color space for un-tagged files.  Otherwise, the green should melt with the background color, like PS does.

 

Proposal

If this is not a bug, I definitely propose that AF assigns at least the working color space to un-tagged files. Or even better, AF allows to assign a selectable color space to un-tagged images as PS does.

By the way, AF closed unexpectedly three times when creating the demo-images.