Why an extra tab stop in the right hand column?

[Furry]

I have a text frame in Affinity Publisher which has two columns, each of 85mm with a 10mm gutter. Each of my paragraphs has its style defined, including the number and positions of tab stops. I am using Aff Pub 1.9.0 on an iMac running Mac OS 10.14.6 Mojave.

When text is in the left column, everything works fine. But in the right column I need to hit tab twice to get to the first tab stop. When I check with the Text Ruler, only the define tab stop is shown, and yet the text is behaving as if there is an additional tab stop to the left of the first (and, in this case, only) tab stop. My screen shot shows just the right hand column. The paragraph style has a left margin of 5mm and the tab stop is set at 12.7mm. The cursor is not showing but it is at the beginning of the word “in” in the second line.

This is driving me nuts. If I edit the text (adding additional material) so that a paragraph is pushed from the left column to the right, I then need to go through one line at a time to add an additional tab. Similarly, if editing pushed a paragraph from the right column onto the left column of the next page, I need to go through one line at a time to delete the additional tab.

[loukash]

4 hours ago, Furry said:

My screen shot

… is not visible. Please reupload.

[walt.farrell]

5 minutes ago, loukash said:

… is not visible. Please reupload.

It is for me, so it may be a local issue for you, unless @Furry saw your note and reuploaded in the few minutes since you posted it..

[Furry]

That’s odd, because I am on the forum now and the screen shot is perfectly visible. When I took the screen shot, I had zoomed in so the 12pt text now looks like it might be 28pt or even larger. But it is certainly visible. I wonder why you couldn’t see it?

[walt.farrell]

@Furry: It would help if you would also post a sample document that illustrates the issue.

[loukash]

I see text "Aff_PublisherScreenShot002.jpg" which links to http://members.ozemail.com.au/~pardy/a_pub/Aff_PublisherScreenShot002.jpg which shows me:

 

Quote

 

Not Found

The requested URL /~pardy/a_pub/Aff_PublisherScreenShot002.jpg was not found on this server.

 

It's better to upload images or videos directly to Serif's forum server. When you're writing a post, simply drag and drop the image directly to the field below, where it says "Drag files here to attach, or choose files..."

4 minutes ago, Furry said:

I wonder why you couldn’t see it?

There may be several reasons, for instance relatively strict security and privacy filters in my VPN settings and in my browser.

[Furry]

Thank you for the advice about using the forum and posting images. I will attempt to add the screen shot again to the end of this post. So far no advice on the ghostly tab stop and what to do about it. 

I have also created a one page document showing the page that is in my screen shot. It is the fifth page of a document and I have used the Section panel to make this sample also page 5. I have also deleted all the text from earlier pages and following pages so that all you have is the material for that page. That sample page is also attached. The graphic has been embedded (normally just linked) and a glace at the asset manager will show you it is an Adobe Illustrator graphic. I have included it so that the page is identical to the one in my full document. I’m sorry that makes for a larger file size.

Sample_Page_2.afpub

Edited March 22, 2021 by Furry
Just making meaning clearer

[walt.farrell]

48 minutes ago, loukash said:

I see text "Aff_PublisherScreenShot002.jpg" which links to http://members.ozemail.com.au/~pardy/a_pub/Aff_PublisherScreenShot002.jpg which shows me:

And in the original post I see:

[walt.farrell]

Thanks for the sample, @Furry.

I do not understand what's happening there.

Here's a revision of your sample, with the image removed, and the extra tab characters removed, so the actual problem is more clearly visible:

 

Sample_Page_2wf.afpub

[Furry]

4 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Here's a revision of your sample, with the image removed, and the extra tab characters removed, so the actual problem is more clearly visibl

In your sample page it is still the case that the left column is OK and the right column still has the ghost tab stop. Look particularly at the Lord’s Prayer in the right column.

[Furry]

It has just gone midnight in my part of the world (Easter Australia). Please forgive me if there is a legthy gap before I respond to any posts in the next 6-8 hours.

[walt.farrell]

Yes. As I said, it illustrates the problem better.

[Old Bruce]

I am not certain that there is a bug here, The problem has to do with the size of the Gutter in the Text Frame's Columns setting, and the size of the tab-stops, additional tab-stops and the Paragraph Style's Left offset. It is also affected by the text frame's offsets

What I would do is set up a paragraph style like the one in the attached document. I used no tab-stops in the style and no tabs in the text, just offsets for left and first line.

Sample_Page_2 bruce.afpub Note the lack of tabs in the text, just the line returns.

[walt.farrell]

57 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

The problem has to do with the size of the Gutter in the Text Frame's Columns setting,

I wondered about that, but reducing the gutter size (even to 0) did not resolve the problem.

[Furry]

Yes, Old Bruce, I can see that setting up my paragraph style in the way you have suggested would get around the problem. But the editor in me still wants to know why the ghost tab stop appears in an otherwise perfectly defined paragraph style.

I wondered if it might have been a conflict between the Guides Manager and the Text Frame panel because, initially, I had set the gutter in the Guides Manager to 8.5mm whereas the Text Frame has the gutter set to 10mm. However, when I set them both to 10mm the ghost tab stop still appeared.

Old Bruce’s solution will get me out of the current problem but I would still like to know why the ghost tab stop appears. As Walt says, changing the gutter size does not resolve anything.

[loukash]

18 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

I am not certain that there is a bug here

Workarounds and other methods to get to the same visual result notwithstanding:
It is a bug and it's replicable.

It behaves quite erratically, however. I don't get the "math" of the bug yet. It's a "sum" of certain tab, left indent and frame inset values:

Pinging @SPaceBar or @Gabe or @Pauls to have a look at it and forward it to the devs, please.
Affects 1.9.2 beta as well.

[loukash]

33 minutes ago, loukash said:

It behaves quite erratically, however. I don't get the "math" of the bug yet. It's a "sum" of certain tab, left indent and frame inset values:

Totally weird…

In my test document, changing the left indent in 1 pt steps by clicking the arrows in Paragraph panel, the tabs behave correctly but only at the given frame size:

• if adding up, with indent 0 pt, 3 pt, 15 pt, 18 pt, 24 pt, 64 pt, 66 pt, 68 pt, 69 pt, 71 pt, 72 pt, 74 pt, 75 pt, 77 pt, 78 pt (didn't try any higher)
• if going down again, it's 77 pt, 74 pt, 71 pt, 68 pt, 65 pt, 31 pt, 24 pt, 18 pt, 3 pt, and of course 0

Changing frame size messes it up again.

So there is a "math", obviously.
Font size doesn't make a difference, the default tab stop was now at 92 pt for better visual contrast, no custom tab stops.

Staff, check out for yourselves:

apu_indent_tab_column_bug.afpub

Edited March 23, 2021 by loukash

[lacerto]

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[loukash]

36 minutes ago, Lagarto said:

The error, whatever it is, might be a result of importing formatted text from a source that uses inch or pt units, conversion of which to decimal system now causes problems when calculating coordinates for text positioning.

In my test example, it was a vanilla document with dummy text. Nothing imported.

[lacerto]

(,,,)

[Furry]

Thank you Loukash and Lagarto for the attention you have given this.

I don’t pretend to understand what you are talking about but hope that someone from Affinity who has the responsibioity of fiddling with Affinity Publisher’s inner workings will understand you and make the necessary fix. I look forward to a further version.

[lacerto]

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