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Are competitors sprinting away?


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Did anyone see the new features of CorelDraw 2021? (AI) features of Photoshop and Luminar have been mentioned in these fora already, too... Seriously, Serif needs to pay more attention to the current versions of their competitors. I hope it's not a strategy of holding back some essential features (true vector brushes, non destructive vector warp, anyone?) for their apps in order to convince more users paying for a version 2.x. To me, personally, Publisher is still not a "real V1.x" for production rather than an advanced beta of a layout software.

I truly wish, that Serif would add some of features which have been standards for ages, sometimes decades instead of trying to add fancy new stuff. Managing the balancing act between being more inventive than others and offering at least very basic features is difficult. I get that. And by "I wish Serif would add..." I don't mean they should add any of them "for free" to the current version within a month or two. But the longer it takes to provide those features, the further away the competitors' apps will move. It's not like any of them are on stillstand. You can't get and hold customers for ages just by being less expensive. At least if one also targets for a more professional market. Time's money. A professional, who'll need plenty of time consuming workarounds in order to get his job done, will swallow the pill and move to the expensive alternatives.

It's probably way about time to move ahead and focus on the release of V2. For adding more basic features, more AI features, for earning new money for further development of their apps.

I wholeheartedly hope for this kind of progress soon-ish.

»A designer's job is to improve the general quality of life. In fact, it's the only reason for our existence.«
Paul Rand (1914-1996)

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6 hours ago, Andy05 said:

Did anyone see the new features of CorelDraw 2021?

Today I had a brief look at their web site.
Impressive.
And, at that price, it better be!
After 32 years of constant development anyway…

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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Yeah, Corel or Adobe are in a different league(in terms of pricing)
VectorStyler can be strong competitor, it has much more feature than Affinity Designer already.
But Affinity's advantage is "affinity" that's between Affinity Suite or raster and vector.
None of competitor have this advantage.

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1 hour ago, loukash said:

And, at that price, it better be!

Sure. But from a professional point of view, just one or two mid-ranged jobs should pay that price already. Whereas you have to spend probably 1-2 hours longer on such a job due to fiddling with workarounds in Affinity apps. And then the same story with the next job. And the next job. And the next job...

That's why I expressed my opinion several times here in the fora already about the target market of the Affinity apps. I think they are targeting for the sector of the market of private users, artists (painting features are quite nice in their apps) and semi professional graphic designers. Their suit is still far from being an alternative for a real professional workflow—even after years of development.  

57 minutes ago, ashf said:

But Affinity's advantage is "affinity" that's between Affinity Suite or raster and vector. 
None of competitor have this advantage.

Unfortunately, as comfortable the (studio) linked communication between Affinity's apps might be, it can't make up with the missing basics. Whereas the "workarounds" for Affinity's studio link feature in Corel's or Adobe's suits aren't that difficult (import/export/copypaste).

»A designer's job is to improve the general quality of life. In fact, it's the only reason for our existence.«
Paul Rand (1914-1996)

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31 minutes ago, Andy05 said:

you have to spend probably 1-2 hours longer on such a job due to fiddling with workarounds in Affinity apps

Frankly, in the meantime I'm not worried that much about Affinity workarounds. Some of them can be fun and lead to surprising – in a positive way – results. Or Affinity "workarounds" that have introduced me to Adobe features I never knew they even existed after two decades of using the suite, and so I've never missed them in the first place.

It's the bugs that worry me. And the lack of progress on that front. (Yes, I'm looking at you, Boolean Operations!)

Now the question is:
How does the Mac version of CorelDraw perform on that field, after a break from the platform for almost two decades…?

31 minutes ago, Andy05 said:

about the target market of the Affinity apps. I think they are targeting for the sector of the market of private users, artists (painting features are quite nice in their apps) and semi professional graphic designers.

The reality being that e.g. I, for one, don't make my living only as a graphic designer although it's my profession; audio editing and music performing being my other equally important activities that get me paid as well. So "mathematically" speaking I'd be definitely within the "semi" professional target group. :)

The last time I spent about CHF 700 – the Swiss price for CorelDraw 2021 – for design software was in 2011 when I upgraded from Adobe CS3 to CS5.5; and that was on a "black friday" with a discount. Technically, CS5.5 still does everything I need for my graphic work today, with the exception of stability issues on El Capitan and newer, and not running at all on Catalina and newer. That's where I wish and expect Affinity to evolve and succeed.

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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20 minutes ago, loukash said:

Frankly, in the meantime I'm not worried that much about Affinity workarounds.

Let me know, how you create some true vector illustrations with some more complex vector brushes for selling them on stock pages.

Let me know, how you make text filling a shape in a non-destructive way (and no, working rasterised in pixels is not an option).

Just two examples of many, which can be done intuitively and quickly in other apps since decades and which aren't some "exotic" jobs to be done. Sure, you can use the node tool for the second example. But that will leave you with a non-editable text and takes multiple times longer than a native warp function.

»A designer's job is to improve the general quality of life. In fact, it's the only reason for our existence.«
Paul Rand (1914-1996)

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Hey @Andy05, are you having trouble due to no true vector brush support? Just getting away from straight vector lines?

I have some “vector” brushes (stretched PNG) that I use in my illustrations and when I’m happy with the stroke size and brush, I export a 32000x32000 PNG on a transparent background, then convert the high res PNG into a SVG using third party freeware/online APIs. 
 

The result is a layer of many curves that can be manipulated. If the “vector brushes” are sharp the result are pretty amazing. It’s a crutch that I have turned into a weapon.
 

 

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1 minute ago, Andy05 said:

how you create some true vector illustrations with some more complex vector brushes for selling them on stock pages

Me? I don't.
It's that simple. :)

3 minutes ago, Andy05 said:

how you make text filling a shape in a non-destructive way (and no, working rasterised in pixels is not an option).

Ditto. I just don't do these kind of things.
I'm aware that these are just random examples. But at the same time, I sincerely like simple and strict design. My logo/forum avatar might in fact tell you the whole story already.

So as far as I'm concerned, I'm not really in that market. There's no use to spend any money on that at this time. For the very most parts as far as tools are concerned, Affinity does nearly all that I'll ever need.

4 minutes ago, Andy05 said:

can be done intuitively and quickly in other apps since decades

If that were how I would have to make my living, I would likely use those "other apps" then.
And since CorelDraw is also available without subscription – unlike apps from that other company which rhymes with schmadobe – I may even opt for it.

(Oh, did I already mention in this thread how I miss my beloved Freehand 9? ;))

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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47 minutes ago, loukash said:

It's the bugs that worry me. And the lack of progress on that front. (Yes, I'm looking at you, Boolean Operations!)

This, 1000x this! There are bits of Affinity software that I sincerely love, and they are why I still endure using them despite all of the bugs. Whenever I see folks pining for the next Affinity app (DAM, 3D, video, animation, presentation software, Linux versions, etc) I get a little nervous, especially when new features likes screen recording and Affinity accounts continue to take precedence while the bug count continues to climb, and long-standing workarounds are now just the way of life with Affinity apps.

I honestly wish that Serif would take one solid release to begin to address many of these issues, clearing this technical debt and providing themselves an excellent foundation for the future. There are some great ideas in this software, but the endless bugs and workarounds really tarnish the shine.

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8 minutes ago, loukash said:

(Oh, did I already mention in this thread how I miss my beloved Freehand 9? ;))

Ah, my beloved Freehand… how I miss thee. 😢

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3 minutes ago, Bryan Rieger said:

I honestly wish that Serif would take one solid release to begin to address many of these issues, clearing this technical debt and providing themselves an excellent foundation for the future.

Sadly, my wish didn't come true yet.
Sigh…

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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4 minutes ago, Bryan Rieger said:

my beloved Freehand… how I miss thee.

Last week I tried to install FH9 in my SheepShaver OS9 emulation, but the disk image is running out of space. I will have to set up and install a larger disk image to accommodate FH9 and some other oldies. However, a few weeks ago – inspired by a discussion here on the forums – I also booted my "antique" 2001 PowerMac G4 running Panther, and FH9 still launched just fine in the Classic environment. The Mac also still boots in OS 9. Haven't done that for … I don't know, at least 10 years or so?!

But enough nostalgia already!
Back on topic… :D

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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4 minutes ago, loukash said:

But enough nostalgia already!
Back on topic… :D

I keep looking at the fantastic work that Pinot W. Ichwandardi https://twitter.com/pinot (his Twitter timeline is fascinating) keeps putting out on those 30+ year old Macs and wonder if things really are better today? :)

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2 minutes ago, Bryan Rieger said:

fantastic work that Pinot W. Ichwandardi

Never heard of him. Fun stuff.

I've got this:
mini_vmac.png.1663a3505253a75b1ef1fead47e3ba5b.png

(Mmm… Civilization 1, the only computer game that has ever fascinated me, or, in other words, in the late 1990s my favorite and only true waste of time, and then some. So addictive! And no, Civ 2 and later didn't cut it. Isometric view sucks.)

But now really…

18 minutes ago, loukash said:

Back on topic…

 

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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8 hours ago, Wikkiwhite said:

I have some “vector” brushes (stretched PNG) that I use in my illustrations and when I’m happy with the stroke size and brush, I export a 32000x32000 PNG on a transparent background, then convert the high res PNG into a SVG using third party freeware/online APIs. 

Thanks for just describing, why it's not working in a professional workflow. In other software, I can create such things without spending plenty of time with such gibberish workarounds. Not even mentioning that vectorising images always needs a lot of extra time afterwards for fine-tuning the results (correctign lines, removing excess nodes and so on).

You actually just proved my point.

»A designer's job is to improve the general quality of life. In fact, it's the only reason for our existence.«
Paul Rand (1914-1996)

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@Andy05 I never have to fine tune results. They are always spot on. I just always wait until I’m done to make the conversions. So it’s not a bad work around for a $25 program ha. Takes me 10mns to make true vector layers out of my fake vector brushes to get true vector support on export. 
 

The key is using high-quality “vector” brushes

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But as @Andy05 says, you really shouldn't have to use a conversion app or import a png to convert a vector brush stroke to SVG outside of Affinity to import it back in.

Affinity should have true vector brushes from the get-go and expand development of those brushes from there. A vector brush is a vector brush, all elements are vector but affinity doesn't have vector brushes, they have hybrid brushes, raster images on a vector curve, you can't even flip them, they rotate.

I have to agree with Andy05, I get the perspective, at the moment Affinity is not what I would call mainstream pro ready, it's more akin to a prosumer camera, again somewhere between Amateur and Pro, having said that Adobe Photoshop CC 2021is buggy as hell and really bad slow on a lot of systems, I had a sport photographer grumbling that it took 20sec to apply a crop in the field to send off to press, whereas PS 2019 did it in as 1-2 sec. There is a big difference between gimmicks and features, so at the moment Ai is the buzz word but I'm not at all impressed, it takes a lot of the skill out of your hands, removes tweaking options and doesn't always make that good a job.

I think the affinity apps are great, but I ain't going to blow smoke, Affinity know what they have to do to up the game, the pressures to get the job done must be great with a lot of people barking "I want" 

iMac 27" 2019 Somona 14.3.1, iMac 27" Affinity Designer, Photo & Publisher V1 & V2, Adobe, Inkscape, Vectorstyler, Blender, C4D, Sketchup + more... XP-Pen Artist-22E, - iPad Pro 12.9  
B| (Please refrain from licking the screen while using this forum)

Affinity Help - Affinity Desktop Tutorials - Feedback - FAQ - most asked questions

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Of course you shouldn’t have to. It’s a bummer for sure. I guess that’s just one way to keep it moving.  
 

CC was buggy for me as well. Just as buggy as affinity at times. I think serif can put a choke hold on a good portion of user not bringing in real money for their work each month if they don’t get ahead of themselves. 
 

Just seems like the development team/QA department can’t keep up. I smell subscriptions ha. Assuming they just need more money...

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4 hours ago, Wikkiwhite said:

@Andy05 I never have to fine tune results. They are always spot on. I just always wait until I’m done to make the conversions. So it’s not a bad work around for a $25 program ha. Takes me 10mns to make true vector layers out of my fake vector brushes to get true vector support on export. 
 

The key is using high-quality “vector” brushes

You obviously never tried to add some vector gradients to a design and tried to sell it at stock pages...

 

Edit for adding a brilliant work, done in Affinity:

Now, make something like that useable at stock pages for vectors. 

 

»A designer's job is to improve the general quality of life. In fact, it's the only reason for our existence.«
Paul Rand (1914-1996)

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