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AMD Radeon RX Hardware Acceleration


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yeah ok but AMD have released a lot of newer drivers at this point and we still haven't heard from someone with inside info from serif.

A simple "amd drivers still sucks" could be enough :P

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13 minutes ago, nitro912gr said:

yeah ok but AMD have released a lot of newer drivers at this point and we still haven't heard from someone with inside info from serif.

A simple "amd drivers still sucks" could be enough 

Non of the updated drivers solved this specific issues, see Mark Ingrams post.
 

There's no need to argue or discuss the point of AMD support. We are in contact with AMD, who are being very responsive, and they are working on a fix. The issue is that their latest drivers have been re-written for the new architectures, and there's a problem with the OpenCL kernel compiler, as it's now 10X slower than it was before (this would translate to a hang when switching to a new tool for the first time for each app launch). I've provided them with test cases, and I'm in regular contact with their engineers about the problem. 

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35 minutes ago, Lycorvinus said:

But that post is more than 7 months old now.

And i recently was in contact with the AMD support and they hinted, that they seem to think it is Serifs turn to fix that.

I'm in regular contact with AMD, and I haven't been told that, so I would suggest that the AMD support person isn't being entirely truthful there. 

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13 minutes ago, Mark Ingram said:

I'm in regular contact with AMD, and I haven't been told that, so I would suggest that the AMD support person isn't being entirely truthful there. 

Would it be possible for you to go into specifics about the issue as people like myself are software engineers.

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2 hours ago, ziplock9000 said:

Would it be possible for you to go into specifics about the issue as people like myself are software engineers.

Their OpenCL kernel compiler is much slower than it used to be. I have a sample repo demonstrating the problem here:

https://github.com/MarkIngramUK/ocl-compile-benchmark

Pinching the results from that repo:

AMD Radeon PRO W6800 (OpenCL 2.0 AMD-APP (3354.13)): 143ms

AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT (OpenCL 2.0 AMD-APP (3188.4)): 1400ms

AMD Radeon (TM) R9 390 Series (OpenCL 2.0 AMD-APP (3110.7)): 53ms

The top result is what I've just tried now, with the latest drivers. The middle result is what I originally filed the bug with AMD. The last result is a non RDNA GPU (i.e. unaffected by the slow compilation bug).

Driver 3354.13 appears to be 10X faster than 3188.4, but that's still 3X slower than it was originally.

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8 hours ago, Mark Ingram said:

I'm in regular contact with AMD, and I haven't been told that, so I would suggest that the AMD support person isn't being entirely truthful there. 

Seems like! Thanks for the clarification.

I am going to follow nitros advice now :)

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11 hours ago, Lycorvinus said:

Seems like! Thanks for the clarification.

I am going to follow nitros advice now :)

Here is a quick guide on how to report the bug, I already sent the report on my side and explained everything, but I also made sure to say multiple times "fix openCL on your driver", fingers crossed but if this keep going like this I will break tradition and jump to the green team next time the market normalize.

 

https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/amdbrt?utm_campaign=report&utm_medium=redirect&utm_source=301

Edited by nitro912gr
oh wtf I forgot the link :P

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21 hours ago, Mark Ingram said:

Their OpenCL kernel compiler is much slower than it used to be. I have a sample repo demonstrating the problem here:

https://github.com/MarkIngramUK/ocl-compile-benchmark

Pinching the results from that repo:

AMD Radeon PRO W6800 (OpenCL 2.0 AMD-APP (3354.13)): 143ms

AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT (OpenCL 2.0 AMD-APP (3188.4)): 1400ms

AMD Radeon (TM) R9 390 Series (OpenCL 2.0 AMD-APP (3110.7)): 53ms

The top result is what I've just tried now, with the latest drivers. The middle result is what I originally filed the bug with AMD. The last result is a non RDNA GPU (i.e. unaffected by the slow compilation bug).

Driver 3354.13 appears to be 10X faster than 3188.4, but that's still 3X slower than it was originally.

Thanks for that. So it seems they have made a massive improvement, but not perfect.

When/Why does the OpenCL code need to be compiled so frequently that makes 52ms is an issue?

Wouldn't it be the best of both worlds to add back the option to turn this back on in Designer, with a disclaimer to the user that they use this at their own risk and it may incur performance issues? Then Affinity are off the hook and the user feels empowered with a choice?

 

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13 hours ago, nitro912gr said:

Here is a quick guide on how to report the bug, I already sent the report on my side and explained everything, but I also made sure to say multiple times "fix openCL on your driver", fingers crossed but if this keep going like this I will break tradition and jump to the green team next time the market normalize.

 

https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/amdbrt?utm_campaign=report&utm_medium=redirect&utm_source=301

Thx, I did this last year but I will also start dooing this more often. But maybe you hvae some tipps for doing this properly.

So what do you write in the Bug Tool? Affected Software: Affinity Designer and Discription: poor OpenCL Performance?

This is not my field of expertise ... how do you properly discribe the issue so that AMD understands the specific problem and why it is so relevant for us?

Do you also include the screenshot of the openCL setting in Affinity?

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5 hours ago, ziplock9000 said:

Thanks for that. So it seems they have made a massive improvement, but not perfect.

When/Why does the OpenCL code need to be compiled so frequently that makes 52ms is an issue?

Wouldn't it be the best of both worlds to add back the option to turn this back on in Designer, with a disclaimer to the user that they use this at their own risk and it may incur performance issues? Then Affinity are off the hook and the user feels empowered with a choice?

 

Take a closer look, the fast ones are the old GPUs.

4 hours ago, PSDfield said:

Thx, I did this last year but I will also start dooing this more often. But maybe you hvae some tipps for doing this properly.

So what do you write in the Bug Tool? Affected Software: Affinity Designer and Discription: poor OpenCL Performance?

This is not my field of expertise ... how do you properly discribe the issue so that AMD understands the specific problem and why it is so relevant for us?

Do you also include the screenshot of the openCL setting in Affinity?

Yeah selected designer and I just wrote a description with the info from this topic and how the openCL driver need to be fixed or something like that, alongside some whining about finally get some love from developers (usually most of the apps supported cuda and not openCL) but now AMD is not fixing the driver.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...

I guess there are still no news about any progress in this topic?
I have gotten AMD far enough to recognize the problem in a Support Request though, so far they thought everything was alright. They even told me that allegedly nobody told them so far... So who knows, there might be hope in the future.

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35 minutes ago, Lycorvinus said:

I guess there are still no news about any progress in this topic?
I have gotten AMD far enough to recognize the problem in a Support Request though, so far they thought everything was alright. They even told me that allegedly nobody told them so far... So who knows, there might be hope in the future.

Nobody told em eh? Interesting, this show how seriously take the bug reports...

Also I don't believe serif lie to us about being in contact with AMD, I mean they implemented AMD support in the first place and the bug is real and exist even in other apps like Davinci Resolve (although I think they did some workaround there).

I have found many instances of the AMD openCL bug through the internet in windows and linux situations.

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33 minutes ago, nitro912gr said:

Nobody told em eh? Interesting, this show how seriously take the bug reports...

Also I don't believe serif lie to us about being in contact with AMD, I mean they implemented AMD support in the first place and the bug is real and exist even in other apps like Davinci Resolve (although I think they did some workaround there).

I have found many instances of the AMD openCL bug through the internet in windows and linux situations.

Yeah, i found them aswell.

I think the L3 Cache Bug with Windows 11 shows a lot how AMD handles problems :D

Mostly with denial, until it is no longer possible.

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1 hour ago, slizgi said:

I reported to them about this directly in end of August 2021, so they are aware of that for sure, even I've got feedback that they are working on a solution, but you know hard to say ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

They told me that they rejected the problem so far, because they could not reproduce it. They basically also said, that they would only work on it, if they can reproduce it.
But given that they told you they are working on it in August 21 i have little to no hope.
I really wonder why they do not even seem to be able to provide a decent driver/software at all but pretent everything is fine...

Guess my next machine won't be using any AMD parts. I am really disappointed in them and their way to deal with problems.

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41 minutes ago, Lycorvinus said:

They told me that they rejected the problem so far, because they could not reproduce it. They basically also said, that they would only work on it, if they can reproduce it.
But given that they told you they are working on it in August 21 i have little to no hope.
I really wonder why they do not even seem to be able to provide a decent driver/software at all but pretent everything is fine...

Guess my next machine won't be using any AMD parts. I am really disappointed in them and their way to deal with problems.

their CPUs are just fine don't get catch in the "I only use this company" mantra.

I jump from company to company since my very first introduction to computers back in 1994 or 1995. Mac with RISC, PC with intel, PC with AMD, macbook with intel, back to pc with amd, same with GPUs, started with mac integrated (no idea what GPU was that in that ancienct Macintosh PPC 7200/72 back then), then PC with S3 Virge, then S3 Savage in Diamond Stealth III, went to ati 9600 and using amd gpus from then on with having a defective nvidia 7600Go on my pavilion laptop and then having nvidia 9400m on my macbook.

Honestly just use what gets the job done at this specific timeframe that you buy something, for the available money and don't hold grudges. You going to save a lot of money and headaches this way because eventually every company screw up something.

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50 minutes ago, nitro912gr said:

their CPUs are just fine don't get catch in the "I only use this company" mantra.

I jump from company to company since my very first introduction to computers back in 1994 or 1995. Mac with RISC, PC with intel, PC with AMD, macbook with intel, back to pc with amd, same with GPUs, started with mac integrated (no idea what GPU was that in that ancienct Macintosh PPC 7200/72 back then), then PC with S3 Virge, then S3 Savage in Diamond Stealth III, went to ati 9600 and using amd gpus from then on with having a defective nvidia 7600Go on my pavilion laptop and then having nvidia 9400m on my macbook.

Honestly just use what gets the job done at this specific timeframe that you buy something, for the available money and don't hold grudges. You going to save a lot of money and headaches this way because eventually every company screw up something.

 

I don't. I always bought the parts which seemed to offer the best bang for the buck for my use case. But i have had so many problems with this hardware and all AMD is saying to this: "I am sorry you experience these problems, but our hardware and software is fine." When it clearly is not.

For the near future, if i need to get new parts, they just won't be from that company, until they fix the way they deal with bugs or problems. Has nothing to do with brand loyalty or anything else. But apart from writing them texts, which they seem to not really care for at all, this is a way i can show them as a customer, that they are not doing a good job.

8 Months for fixing a hardware acceleration problem and neglecting it half way through is really really bad practice.

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I have no idea, maybe there is an architecture flaw, and they do not want to admit it. I agree that as a creator you would be better with green cards, or maybe blue, if they turn out fine. As for today, hard to say in the future how green/blue/red GPU turns out.
About AMD however, I have to admit that I had a bigger issue with other software, and the problem was way worse because it just crashes right away so was absolutely not usable (with Affinity Photo, it is just slower than could be, especially with bigger files.) I reported the problem in the other software directly to AMD / Radeon and was provided within a week or even less with a beta driver and a solution - so it is not like they are not care. I am far from saying that. But with this OpenCL stuff in Affinity Photo is pend a long time.

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5 hours ago, slizgi said:

I have no idea, maybe there is an architecture flaw, and they do not want to admit it. I agree that as a creator you would be better with green cards, or maybe blue, if they turn out fine. As for today, hard to say in the future how green/blue/red GPU turns out.
About AMD however, I have to admit that I had a bigger issue with other software, and the problem was way worse because it just crashes right away so was absolutely not usable (with Affinity Photo, it is just slower than could be, especially with bigger files.) I reported the problem in the other software directly to AMD / Radeon and was provided within a week or even less with a beta driver and a solution - so it is not like they are not care. I am far from saying that. But with this OpenCL stuff in Affinity Photo is pend a long time.

god forbid it at times like those :P we need to do with what we have, that is AMD right now.

It could be weird to have something like this on architecture level because GPGPU computing is everywhere those days and the main way to use it is openCL, if I stand correct. Maybe they tried to do something to limit the mining hashrate to make the cards unattractive to miners but in the progress screwed openCL too?

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5 hours ago, slizgi said:

I have no idea, maybe there is an architecture flaw, and they do not want to admit it. I agree that as a creator you would be better with green cards, or maybe blue, if they turn out fine. As for today, hard to say in the future how green/blue/red GPU turns out.
About AMD however, I have to admit that I had a bigger issue with other software, and the problem was way worse because it just crashes right away so was absolutely not usable (with Affinity Photo, it is just slower than could be, especially with bigger files.) I reported the problem in the other software directly to AMD / Radeon and was provided within a week or even less with a beta driver and a solution - so it is not like they are not care. I am far from saying that. But with this OpenCL stuff in Affinity Photo is pend a long time.

It seems like there are big quality differences in their support work. Other than trying to make the problems look smaller than they are or straight up saying everything runs as expected, when it isn't. They have not been very helpful in my requests.

Hopefully that changes soon. But a bad customer support is one of the things that drives me away from a company...That said, if i never need it, because the products run fine, i would never find out.

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  • 2 weeks later...

So... is there anything newer on this? I'm so tired with AMD at this point. I can't believe I'm ready at the first opportunity to change to nvidia, but I need to work and play, not just play anymore.

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