groups / constraints group confusion

[Jaben]

I don't understand.

Usually when I select objects, then 'group,' a _group_ is created. However, sometimes the exact same menu selection will create a _constraints group_.

Why does a single menu item produce alternating results? What is causing the difference in outcomes?

And, how can I convert a constraints group to a regular group?

Affinity Designer for iPad.

Thanks.

 

[AllAppsUser]

Hum, I hesitate to try to help as I’m not practiced with constraints. As no one else has contributed, I thought I’d try.

You’ve checked through the transform studio constraints to make sure there’s no lingering constraint setting on any child or parent object you’re then attempting to group normally? Long sentence - I hope you follow my logic there.

[StudioJason]

3 hours ago, ProDesigner said:

Hum, I hesitate to try to help as I’m not practiced with constraints. As no one else has contributed, I thought I’d try.

You’ve checked through the transform studio constraints to make sure there’s no lingering constraint setting on any child or parent object you’re then attempting to group normally? Long sentence - I hope you follow my logic there.

This kind of thing happens to a lot of the settings to...residual or lingering, so is an accurate description. Some just don’t seem to reset when opening a creating a new file....even if choosing the Transform Studio- often keeps Anchor Points changed/selected from previous. May be intended or a bug, can be frustrating, but either way just know now to check things like Constraints and such.

[AllAppsUser]

10 hours ago, StudioJason said:

Some just don’t seem to reset when opening a creating a new file....

Forgive the idiot question, but you're sure these settings have not crept into your app defaults, @StudioJason?

I suspect it's all too easy to save to defaults, not realising there's a whole heap of settings included that you've chosen during the course of working. I'm, quite frankly, wary of the save to defaults feature for this very reason. Might be something I've not understood yet of course.

It sounds like it's possible your defaults have acquired these nuances, if even creating an entirely new document doesn't reset these things... that's what defaults are afterall. I would not be surpised, however, if Serif have allowed the defaults to end up rather arbitrary - there are some careless aspects to these apps (in early versions only remember, so perhaps forgivable for now, as annoying as it is).

I suggest quitting the app completely (dragging it off screen), and then opening a new document. See if the settings are still in place and if they are, then query whether and when you've used Save to defaults.

[Jaben]

21 hours ago, ProDesigner said:

Hum, I hesitate to try to help as I’m not practiced with constraints. As no one else has contributed, I thought I’d try.

You’ve checked through the transform studio constraints to make sure there’s no lingering constraint setting on any child or parent object you’re then attempting to group normally? Long sentence - I hope you follow my logic there.

@ProDesigner 

No worries, I appreciate you jumping in.

You are correct, it turns out that there were constraint settings set for some of the objects in each group that was giving me grief. The lesson-learned is that the create group command will produce a constraints group rather than a group if any of the selected objects to be grouped contain a constraints setting. 

Additionally, with further experiment, removing the constraints settings of all objects in an existing constraints group will not convert the constraints group to a group, nor will removing the constraints settings of objects in a constraints group stop them from acting like constraints; after being created, a constraints group will continue to act like a constraints group even if there are no constraints settings set on-on any object inside the constraints group, or on the constraints group itself. The only way to remove constraints from a constraints group seems to be to nuke and rebuild: ungroup everything, menu-dive into each object to check constraints settings and, if set on, turn off, then regroup the lot.

Mislabeled, counter-intuitive and tedious, but at least there's a logic to it once one slogs through the learning curve.

Still, I'm able to diagnose and correct the base undesired behavior now. 

Thanks for helping me work through it.

 

 

 

[AllAppsUser]

Glad to have been a catalyst. I’ve learned too, so cool.

The first part sounds logical - constraints settings on any object before grouping determine the kind of group created.

Fascinating extra observations you’ve made. Just done a quick experiment myself. Created an ‘vanilla’ group and then added a constraint to an object within the group. It did not work the same way. The group converts instead - to a constraints group.

My conclusion is that constraints always over-ride. Whether captured in the initial group command, or applied to an individual object within a group. So you have to always ungroup a constraints group in order to convert it to a ‘vanilla’ group. Additionally, also check each object before regrouping. Hum.. like you say: huge potential for tedious reconstruction.

I’ve made a mental note to capture stages of constructing constraint grouped objects on the pasteboard (I’m in the habit of doing this a lot when using Boolean commands on shapes).

Anyway, now you know, hopefully your life’ll be a bit easier. Ever hopeful, eh.

[StudioJason]

15 hours ago, ProDesigner said:

Forgive the idiot question, but you're sure these settings have not crept into your app defaults, @StudioJason?

I suspect it's all too easy to save to defaults, not realising there's a whole heap of settings included that you've chosen during the course of working. I'm, quite frankly, wary of the save to defaults feature for this very reason. Might be something I've not understood yet of course.

It sounds like it's possible your defaults have acquired these nuances, if even creating an entirely new document doesn't reset these things... that's what defaults are afterall. I would not be surpised, however, if Serif have allowed the defaults to end up rather arbitrary - there are some careless aspects to these apps (in early versions only remember, so perhaps forgivable for now, as annoying as it is).

I suggest quitting the app completely (dragging it off screen), and then opening a new document. See if the settings are still in place and if they are, then query whether and when you've used Save to defaults.

Yes...and nope, none of the above. Typically do not set anything for default, as I’m always designing things of multiple varieties, and  even then constantly needing ‘from scratch’ type settings (too much differences). Not really an issue for me, but thanks.