Adil _P Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 Hello When exporting an image from Affinity the exported image tonal quality differs substantially to what is shown upon affinity desktop when viewed with the same monitor. Additionally the exported image looks over sharpened. Any idea why this is happening? I have enclosed two screen shots one in photo persona and the other in export persona together with a copy of the exported jpeg image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Rostron Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 We cannot compare these images because they are displayed at different scales. To compare images (especially for sharpness) you need to display them all at 100%. John Quote Windows 10, Affinity Photo 1.10.5 Designer 1.10.5 and Publisher 1.10.5 (mainly Photo), now ex-Adobe CC CPU: AMD A6-3670. RAM: 16 GB DDR3 @ 666MHz, Graphics: 2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 630 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt.farrell Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 Additionally, for tonality differences, remember that JPG files are compressed, and lose information. This can easily show differences with the original image. Also, the bit-depth of the images will be important between the original and the exported JPG file. Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jowday Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Adil _P said: Hello When exporting an image from Affinity the exported image tonal quality differs substantially to what is shown upon affinity desktop when viewed with the same monitor. Additionally the exported image looks over sharpened. Any idea why this is happening? I have enclosed two screen shots one in photo persona and the other in export persona together with a copy of the exported jpeg image. Okay, the difference is huge, it is hard to tell what causes such a dramatic difference. A few input: Always sharpen at 100% in any program you have and use. Software use different methods to scale huge images to the monitor, some methods and programs blur these scaled images than others. Algorithms and settings made the developers. Often you have no control. Remember that overs sharpening - when it is deliberate - is generally a sign of amatuers at work. When selling images many sharpened images are rejected. Professional cameras make softer in-camera JPGs than prosumer cameras. Be careful! 🙂 The threshold setting is key if you use unsharp mask. Always preview the output at 100% as well. A great image viewer with monitor colour profile is mandatory. Also be aware that Photo does render images at 100% slightly different depending on what view quality you have selected - the rendering quality matters. I noticed a difference when sharpening small details with unsharp mask during a test of Photo that didn't satisfy me. But I am also a picky photographer. Try toggling between them and see if it makes a difference toggling between them. Of are also welcome to share an image with me in a PM in strict confidence. I had commercial images stolen several times - not selling online anymore for that reason - so I respect ownership. Quote "The user interface is supposed to work for me - I am not supposed to work for the user interface." Computer-, operating system- and software agnostic; I am a result oriented professional. Look for a fanboy somewhere else. “When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger.” ― Confucius Not an Affinity user og forum user anymore. The software continued to disappoint and not deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepr Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Jowday said: Also be aware that Photo does render images at 100% slightly different depending on what view quality you have selected There is no difference at 100% zoom on my machine, but I believe you use a Windows PC with display scaling enabled in the OS, whereas I use a Mac with the display at its native resolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adil _P Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 I have used Apple Mac with a Benq monitor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepr Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 hours ago, Adil _P said: Additionally the exported image looks over sharpened. Any idea why this is happening? When you export at less than 100% scale, live sharpening filters become exaggerated. I recommend you Merge Visible (shift+option+cmd+e) to a full scale composite image at the top of the stack and then export to whatever scale you require. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepr Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 Just now, Adil _P said: I have used Apple Mac with a Benq monitor Does the Affinity view quality control make a measurable difference when Affinity zoom is at 100%? (I emphasised the word "measurable" because it's all too easy to be misled by psychological influences on your perception.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adil _P Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Jowday said: Okay, the difference is huge, it is hard to tell what causes such a dramatic difference. A few input: Always sharpen at 100% in any program you have and use. Software use different methods to scale huge images to the monitor, some methods and programs blur these scaled images than others. Algorithms and settings made the developers. Often you have no control. Remember that overs sharpening - when it is deliberate - is generally a sign of amatuers at work. When selling images many sharpened images are rejected. Professional cameras make softer in-camera JPGs than prosumer cameras. Be careful! 🙂 The threshold setting is key if you use unsharp mask. Always preview the output at 100% as well. A great image viewer with monitor colour profile is mandatory. Also be aware that Photo does render images at 100% slightly different depending on what view quality you have selected - the rendering quality matters. I noticed a difference when sharpening small details with unsharp mask during a test of Photo that didn't satisfy me. But I am also a picky photographer. Try toggling between them and see if it makes a difference toggling between them. Of are also welcome to share an image with me in a PM in strict confidence. I had commercial images stolen several times - not selling online anymore for that reason - so I respect ownership. Hello When I tried nearest neighbour option the image appeared sharper on the screen but not as sharp as the exported version. The exported image was at 100% See export settings below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jowday Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 3 hours ago, anon2 said: There is no difference at 100% zoom on my machine, but I believe you use a Windows PC with display scaling enabled in the OS, whereas I use a Mac with the display at its native resolution. I experienced with and without scaling the same as him that images are rendered a bit sharper at 100% with nearest in view quality. Quote "The user interface is supposed to work for me - I am not supposed to work for the user interface." Computer-, operating system- and software agnostic; I am a result oriented professional. Look for a fanboy somewhere else. “When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger.” ― Confucius Not an Affinity user og forum user anymore. The software continued to disappoint and not deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jowday Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 At this point in time I would recommend to scale and observe in Photos main window and export. See what happens. I never scaled images during export in any program. I resize and sharpen the resized image then export what I saw with own eyes. Anyway scaling with bilinear here (Windows) doesn't trigger that effect. It never should, it is a harmless algorithm. Quote "The user interface is supposed to work for me - I am not supposed to work for the user interface." Computer-, operating system- and software agnostic; I am a result oriented professional. Look for a fanboy somewhere else. “When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger.” ― Confucius Not an Affinity user og forum user anymore. The software continued to disappoint and not deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adil _P Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 Can anyone from Affinity Photo reply to this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff MEB Posted February 2, 2021 Staff Share Posted February 2, 2021 Hi @Adil _P, Can you upload both the final affinity photo file and the exported JPG for comparison? There will always be some differences - you are working with a 16 bit image which will be exported to a more limited compressed 8 bit format. I can provide an upload link if you wish to keep the files private - just let me know. Quote A Guide to Learning Affinity Software Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adil _P Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 please provide link - I have sent email to affinity support so please end me link via that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff MEB Posted February 2, 2021 Staff Share Posted February 2, 2021 Seems your support ticked is already assigned to a colleague. I will let him know about the upload link so he can reply to you. Thanks. Quote A Guide to Learning Affinity Software Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adil _P Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 any chance you can over this ticket as still no contact from your colleague? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adil _P Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 HI @MEB. any chance you can take over this ticket as still no contact from your colleague? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff MEB Posted February 2, 2021 Staff Share Posted February 2, 2021 Hi @Adil _P, Please check you e-mail. You should have a reply with the upload link now. Quote A Guide to Learning Affinity Software Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adil _P Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 @MEB can you confirm you have received the files from the upload? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff MEB Posted February 4, 2021 Staff Share Posted February 4, 2021 Hi @Adil _P, Yes, i've received the files and already take a first look at them. I don't expect the files to look the same - as said earlier you are exporting to an 8 bit format, compressed and also resampling the image on export - those things alone don't allow for a direct comparison, but mostly i believe you are checking/comparing the images (in app and exported) at different zoom levels which adds a few issues on its own. The original afphoto image seen in-app is quite sharpen and very close to the exported image when both are being checked at 100% zoom (despite their different sizes). Comparing them at 100% (or higher zoom levels) is important because at lower zoom levels the filters/adjustments are actually being applied to mipmaps in the app (lower resolution versions of the image/layer - to improve app's performance when rendering images on screen) not to the full image. This leads to lower accuracy and a misleading visual result when the image is being displayed at less than 100% zoom. This is very noticeable with this image in particular which have lot of micro detail - see the video below - notice how the render on screen varies considerably while i change the zoom until i reach 100%. As you can see, at 100% the original image is quite sharpen as much as the exported image. In v1.9 we improved the adjustments/filters rendering a bit so they should be a bit more accurate when checking the image at zoom levels below 100% but it always a good idea to check/compare the images at 100% zoom/size. adjutfilters_mipmaps_rendering.mp4 Quote A Guide to Learning Affinity Software Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adil _P Posted February 5, 2021 Author Share Posted February 5, 2021 Thank you very helpful to understand what is going on. One of your colleagues suggested that I change the file size using Document/Resize Document instead of specifying the output on export. I tried this and has exactly the same effect of making the document look over sharpened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepr Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 18 minutes ago, Adil _P said: Thank you very helpful to understand what is going on. One of your colleagues suggested that I change the file size using Document/Resize Document instead of specifying the output on export. I tried this and has exactly the same effect of making the document look over sharpened. A Serif representative should have known that would happen. I don't know whether you read my earlier recommendation: first make a 100% scale flattened composite and then produce resized exports of that. Each export can optionally have further sharpening applied as required for the image's use, such as Web or print. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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