Using a compound shape to mask a group?

[eobet]

Is this possible?

(Also, I must say, that hiding compound shapes behind an Alt shortcut, and no evidence of this functionality anywhere in the menus, isn't super intuitive...)

[firstdefence]

You'll find quite a few idiosyncrasies in the Affinity apps, a heads up, that opacity slider is also a noise slider, click on it's little round icon to see it change.

As for Compounds being used for masking, I've just tried it and it does mask.

[MEB]

17 minutes ago, eobet said:

Is this possible?

(Also, I must say, that hiding compound shapes behind an Alt shortcut, and no evidence of this functionality anywhere in the menus, isn't super intuitive...)

Yes, you can use a compound to mask a group.
That's not entirely true - on macOS if you press ALT and go to the Geometry menu you should see "(Compound)" added after the boolean operation's name. Unfortunately this can't be implemented on Windows.

[Alfred]

12 minutes ago, MEB said:

That's not entirely true - on macOS if you press ALT and go to the Geometry menu you should see "(Compound)" added after the boolean operation's name. Unfortunately this can't be implemented on Windows.

It’s a pity this can’t be implemented on Windows, but even on macOS it should still be regarded as hidden if the only users who will ever see it are those who know to press Option/Alt beforehand!

[MEB]

Or those who check/search the Help about geometric operations...
Actually the compounds topic is missing from the Photo Help (i'm logging this now).

[eobet]

2 hours ago, MEB said:

Yes, you can use a compound to mask a group.
That's not entirely true - on macOS if you press ALT and go to the Geometry menu you should see "(Compound)" added after the boolean operation's name. Unfortunately this can't be implemented on Windows.

1. What am I doing wrong here?

2. Why can't that hidden menu you describe always be shown? Why can't we have an optional separate toolbar for compound shapes?

[Old Bruce]

7 minutes ago, eobet said:

1. What am I doing wrong here?

 

Not entirely sure because I cannot easily follow the looping gif* and I really do not know what your desired end result is.

But I think you are clipping the Compound instead of using the compound to clip. As I said I just am not certain what you want to achieve.

*(I hate these things when used to demonstrate a problem, where does it start or end)

[eobet]

What does it matter when it starts and ends?

1. I move one orange shape into an invisible curve, and get expected clipping.

2. I move one orange shape into an invisible compound, and the entire orange shape disappears instead!

I don't get why it behaves differently if clipping is supposed to work with compound shapes.

Again, if there was an explicit menu command/button to perform clipping, you wouldn't have to guess what happens when you drag and drop stuff in various places...

[Xzenor]

if you're trying to use the curve or compount as a mask then you shouldn't move it below the text but on the thumbnail.

James Ritson explains it perfectly in this Affinity Tutorial:  (0:55 should be spot on for your question)

He doesn't talk about compounds but it works the same as regular curves.

Oh and if you manage to put a compound as a mask then you can no longer edit the compound. You have to remove it from its mask position back as a regular layer to be able to edit the individual objects. You can of course edit the shape itself.

[Old Bruce]

1 minute ago, eobet said:

What does it matter when it starts and ends?

 

You know where the start is but I don't know where it starts and being a loop it doesn't end.

[eobet]

14 minutes ago, Xzenor said:

if you're trying to use the curve or compount as a mask then you shouldn't move it below the text but on the thumbnail.

Still can't get that to work, unfortunately, regardless of how I try:

Also, even if you are somehow correct, my initial suspiciouns were right then: There's only implicit (difficult to discover) ways to achieving clipping that's theoretically different if you want to use a curve or compound as the mask. That's poor UI consistency!

Again, why isn't there an explicit, intuitive menu option/button for this?

Unless I'm missing something obvious, this seems bad on so many levels!

[Xzenor]

how's this?

Sorry about the menu not showing (OBS thinks it's a different window) but you already know how to make a compound so I see no reason to redo it

https://streamable.com/m7tmrp

[user_0815]

Not sure why it doesn’t work as expected. Inside a group things behave differently in some cases. Perhaps that is the case here?  It might be worth a try in an empty document. 

[Xzenor]

Wait.. I see what's wrong.

Fill your masking-compound with a color. it just has to have a color. Any color. You won't see it anymore once it's a mask.

And start with 100% opacity.. you can lower it later if you want but just to see it work.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Xzenor
added some stuff..

[lepr]

11 hours ago, eobet said:

1. I move one orange shape into an invisible curve, and get expected clipping.

2. I move one orange shape into an invisible compound, and the entire orange shape disappears instead!

I don't get why it behaves differently if clipping is supposed to work with compound shapes.

Affinity currently does not support clipping by a container object such as Compound, Group or Layer (note the capital L). When you tried to clip the orange object with the Compound, the orange object became another member of the Compound and vanished because the Compound already had been given an invisible appearance [sorry for the oxymoron ].

 A Compound or other container object can be used as a mask, but an entirely invisible mask will make the masked object completely disappear because masking is a product of the opacity of the masking object.

 

[Xzenor]

1 hour ago, anon2 said:

Affinity currently does not support clipping by a container object such as Compound, Group or ...

You're wrong.

https://streamable.com/m7tmrp

0:40

It just needs to be not-transparant.

[Move Along People]

-

[lepr]

4 minutes ago, Xzenor said:

You're wrong.

https://streamable.com/m7tmrp

0:40

It just needs to be not-transparant.

I'm not wrong. You have confirmed my second paragraph above.

Your video shows masking by a Compound and I said that is possible

 

[lepr]

6 minutes ago, haakoo said:

But it is

Too terse and ambiguous. Please expand.

[lepr]

22 minutes ago, haakoo said:

But it is right

Oh, now you've added the word "right". So why use the word "but" when I did not say or imply that the app behaviour is wrong?

 

 

[Move Along People]

-
 

[user_0815]

Not sure whether I understood the op correctly. Is this what you are trying to achieve? 

[Alfred]

27 minutes ago, user_0815 said:

Is this what you are trying to achieve?

No, that’s masking (or cropping). The OP is asking for clipping.

[lepr]

3 minutes ago, Alfred said:

No, that’s masking (or cropping). The OP is asking for clipping.

The thread title (at this moment) is "Using a compound shape to mask a group?"

For masking, all that's needed is to give an opaque fill to the masking Compound.

[Alfred]

1 hour ago, anon2 said:

The thread title (at this moment) is "Using a compound shape to mask a group?"

True, but it’s clear from the OP’s first animated GIF that the aim was clipping rather than masking. Presumably your awareness of that fact is what prompted you to refer to ‘The thread title (at this moment)’, in recognition of the distinct possibility that that title may be changed later.