Stephen_H Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Hi This is a REALLY small thing but it's driving me insane because I can't change my muscle memory. You need me to hold down the Alt key before clicking on an object. Please can you allow me to press the Alt key after I've started dragging the object. (the same way Apple's finder functions) Matthias 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff Ben Posted September 17, 2015 Staff Share Posted September 17, 2015 There are number of very long threads about this issue. We chose Alt as an override for snapping because it fits with our wider strategy for modifier keys across all our tools. We allow you to use Cmd to do typical clone drag as it isn't used for other dragging behaviour control in the Move tool. The Alt behaviour was a compromise that we made, but actually not something we wanted to do - we would rather have just kept it with the Cmd key, and reserve Alt for just overriding snapping as it applies to most tools. We tested this extensively, and tried using Cmd for cancelling snapping and Alt for cloning. From a physical point of view it was terrible when using the Pen and Node tools (which we consider to be the primary tools for vector illustration). We allow you to hold Cmd in the Pen tool to temporarily access Node tool capabilities. This can be achieved with the thumb, while still keeping the other three keys for constraining and overriding snapping. In cognitive terms, the independence of the thumb is better than the independence of the other fingers - you can just rest your thumb on the key, and the other three fingers operate without hinderance. If the Alt key is the one you rest on, operating the other three modifiers is much harder. This was not a decision we took lightly, or just to be contrary. Our vector tools offer more advanced features compared to other vector apps. To enable these and allow for quick usage we needed to chose our modifier keys carefully - they are a finite set. So, we chose the keys based on real world considerations, and the limitations of the human hand and the layout of the standard Apple keyboard - not historic conventions derived from unrelated or incomparable tools (these mostly only require a single modifier, but our tools work with multiple combined modifiers - for example, you could clone while constraining and disabling snapping). In short - I don't imagine us changing this (since we tried it already). Quote SerifLabs team - Affinity Developer Software engineer - Photographer - Guitarist - Philosopher iMac 27" Retina 5K (Late 2015), 4.0GHz i7, AMD Radeon R9 M395 MacBook (Early 2015), 1.3GHz Core M, Intel HD 5300 iPad Pro 10.5", 256GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_B_C Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 The Alt behaviour was a compromise that we made, but actually not something we wanted to do - we would rather have just kept it with the Cmd key, and reserve Alt for just overriding snapping as it applies to most tools. This is perhaps the only point which could be improved here. Why not add a checkbox in the preferences that would allow us to disable cloning by Option + Drag? This would give us the option to decouple cloning and snapping altogether, while being still an option which could be chosen by the user at will. I suggested this some time before in another thread, and I would be very happy to hear what you think about this, Ben … :) https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/11903-affinity-designer-customer-beta-13426925/?p=52763 To be sure, we would not loose anything by such an option: To clone an object (snapping active) > Hold Cmd To clone an object (snapping disabled) > Hold Cmd and Option I believe this could further improve my workflow. Thanks for considering. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxaffinity Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I think having the possibility (preference, etc) to clone a shape while I'm dragging it (whether it is the holding the Alt or Cmd key) would be really useful. I find that having to press the key before dragging a shape makes me loose time and it's not very comfortable. Please consider implementing this as it would be a great feature for Affinity Designer, a tool that I already like a lot and use everyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff Ben Posted September 17, 2015 Staff Share Posted September 17, 2015 We've just checked out a few other creative apps. Pretty much all of them that offer Alt-clone require you to be pressing Alt before you start dragging. Quote SerifLabs team - Affinity Developer Software engineer - Photographer - Guitarist - Philosopher iMac 27" Retina 5K (Late 2015), 4.0GHz i7, AMD Radeon R9 M395 MacBook (Early 2015), 1.3GHz Core M, Intel HD 5300 iPad Pro 10.5", 256GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evtonic3 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 We've just checked out a few other creative apps. Pretty much all of them that offer Alt-clone require you to be pressing Alt before you start dragging. Illustrator does both, before or after. I think that is all this being asked, can we have after the drag. Also would like to see AD to at show a "+" like in iDraw. It flows better in iDraw as you can see in video. In Designer it is a clumsy stumbling experience to remember the steps to get there, although small in detail, but a "drag". You have to physically select the object (click 1) press alt (click 2) drag (third step). iDraw is press alt (regardless if hovering object-click 1) drag (second step). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_B_C Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 You’re right, evtonic3 … Indesign allows both as well … But the main issue is that the suggested behavior of the Option (Alt) key will interfere with the current use of Option (Alt) as a modifier that temporally disables snapping. Suppose you have snapping active and want to temporally disable it while moving an object. On the suggested behavior, you would create a clone instead … the most logical thing for me (although breaking habits) would be the option to decouple snapping and cloning altogether, as I said above … :unsure: But I like your second suggestion … one click less … :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen_H Posted September 18, 2015 Author Share Posted September 18, 2015 Hmm, clearly not a really small thing. Pity. What about a "drag + d-key"? It currently bugs out if you use the c-key because it changes the tool and forces the object to be dropped ...but the d-key doesn't seem to do anything. D would make sense since it could also represent "Duplicate" instead of "Clone". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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