Rotate - is it me?

[dbrear]

When I rotate an image I lose the corners—


I can't see the whole of the image. I can when I Document>Rotate 90... —why not normally?

This must be a basic thing, but, as so many people say, it's really bugging me!

[dbrear]

Thanks — yes, I'd got that, and if i copy it and paste it, it's all there, but why would anyone want to rotate it and have the canvas act as a bounding box to cut out parts? 

It seems so silly—particularly when it doesn't work that way if you rotate the document. Is there a reason?

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, dbrear said:

Thanks — yes, I'd got that, and if i copy it and paste it, it's all there, but why would anyone want to rotate it and have the canvas act as a bounding box to cut out parts? 

It seems so silly—particularly when it doesn't work that way if you rotate the document. Is there a reason?

There are several kinds of rotation. Perhaps you should be using a different one?

In Photo:

1. Document > Rotate Canvas which physically modifies the document.
2. Rotating a layer as you did, which also physically modifies the document.
3. View > Rotate which just changes how you're looking at the document, and does not change it physically. Think of this one like rotating a sheet of paper on your desk to make it easier to read or to draw on.

Maybe you'd be happier with View > Rotate?

 

[dbrear]

Hi Walt—trying to help out as usual!

Yes, what I'd like to be able to do is use this menu—

—which I assume is what you mean (I don't have a Menu>Document>Rotate Canvas option—do you?? I'm using 1.8.5.703) but with more control, as I have with PSP, for example.

Thanks for helping.

[walt.farrell]

Yes, that's what I meant. Sorry.

But in your initial post that's not what you were doing. You weren't rotating the document, you were rotating a single layer.

I don't understand why you'd want to rotate that document by 45 degrees, I guess. What is the end goal?

[PaulEC]

35 minutes ago, dbrear said:

what I'd like to be able to do is use this menu

If you want the document to expand so that the corners show, just hit "Clip Canvas" on that Menu.

[dbrear]

Well, first of all, I'm not that used to working with layers. I go back to Paint Shop Pro 4 (1997 I think!) when things were simpler.

So if I want to rotate an image, that's what I want to do! I'm still getting use to Photo - it's fine, I just need to know how to use it.

[dbrear]

4 minutes ago, PaulEC said:

If you want the document to expand so that the corners show, just hit "Clip Canvas" on that Menu.

Thanks Paul—I thought that might be the solution, but it doesn't seem to make any difference. I expected to see it selected once I'd clicked on it, but no ... Clip or Unclip, neither is selected.

[dbrear]

Having gone back to PSP I now see that exactly the same thing happens, so it must be me!!

The only difference is, that with PSP I can select the new rectangle which has expanded to include the white triangular corners, straight away, whereas with Photo the corners have been chopped off.

[dbrear]

This is how PSP does it—

—and I can select the whole of the white area if I want, or save it ... I'm not saying it's better, just what I'm used to, and I'd like to be able to do it in Photo.

For instance, I quite often post books on Facebook. I copy the front image and add add white margins to left and right (which PSP does with Image>Add borders, nice and easy) so it's a suitable format (wider than tall) and just copy it in. That seems a much more complicated process with Photo.

With Photo I open an image (just one layer, so it's selected of course), I click on Rectangular Marquee Tool, select the area I want, press Ctrl-C, and does it copy it? No!. If I paste it, it's copied the whole image. Why???? Is this normal? It works with PSP!

So why use Photo? I want to! 

[Pšenda]

47 minutes ago, dbrear said:

This is how PSP does it—

Surely you have noticed that the canvas/document has been enlarged beyond the size of the original/unrotated image.
So enlarge the canvas, rotate the image, and then possibly crop the rest.

  

[dbrear]

Thanks Pšenda. 

It's just that a lot of stuff I've been taking for granted isn't automatic.

Any comment on the rest of my rant?

[Pšenda]

1 hour ago, dbrear said:

With Photo I open an image (just one layer, so it's selected of course), I click on Rectangular Marquee Tool, select the area I want, press Ctrl-C, and does it copy it? No!. If I paste it, it's copied the whole image. Why???? Is this normal?

Pixel layer? Not Image layer (need rasterized).

[Pšenda]

1 hour ago, dbrear said:

I copy the front image and add add white margins to left and right

Untick Document\ Transparent background, Document\Resize canvas\Anchor point to center, Size + 100.
 

[lepr]

20 hours ago, dbrear said:

When I rotate an image I lose the corners—


I can't see the whole of the image.

After rotating the image layer, do Document > Unclip Canvas.

[Pšenda]

30 minutes ago, anon2 said:

After rotating the image layer, do Document > Unclip Canvas.

2 hours ago, PaulEC said:

If you want the document to expand so that the corners show, just hit "Clip Canvas" on that Menu.

2 hours ago, dbrear said:

Thanks Paul—I thought that might be the solution, but it doesn't seem to make any difference. I expected to see it selected once I'd clicked on it, but no ... Clip or Unclip, neither is selected.

I don't know why the OP doesn't work (that's why I advised him on the difficult procedure of enlarging the canvas), but it also works for me without any problems.

P.S. interestingly, in this case, Clip and Unclip work exactly the same.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Pšenda

[dbrear]

Everyone - thanks for taking the trouble.

I think part of my problem is, that although there's only one layer showing (Background), in fact it has another, Canvas, behind it. Is that it?

So when I thought I was resizing everything, in fact I was only dealing with the top layer. And I never knew.

[PaulEC]

👍

[PaulEC]

15 hours ago, Pšenda said:

P.S. interestingly, in this case, Clip and Unclip work exactly the same.

I use Clip Canvas quite often (I set up a keyboard short cut, which is quite handy,) but I've never been sure just what Unclip is supposed to do. I would have thought it should restore the area that has been clipped, but whenever I try it nothing seems to happen!

[Pšenda]

2 hours ago, PaulEC said:

I use Clip Canvas quite often (I set up a keyboard short cut, which is quite handy,) but I've never been sure just what Unclip is supposed to do. I would have thought it should restore the area that has been clipped, but whenever I try it nothing seems to happen!

The Help states the following:

For the above example, where you need to expand the size of the canvas after rotating the image, the Unclip command should be used.
The same function, ie the expansion of the size of the canvas, but it will also do a Clip command. So in my opinion, both commands do the same, which is either wrong or redundant (and confusing).

[dbrear]

I don't think I was using Clip/Unclip properly, which is probably the answer to your point above. I was expecting to have to set this up for it to work, which is why I expected to see it selected; not to do it after the Rotate. So I don't expect there's anything wrong with my program!

[lepr]

4 hours ago, Pšenda said:

The Help states the following:

For the above example, where you need to expand the size of the canvas after rotating the image, the Unclip command should be used.
The same function, ie the expansion of the size of the canvas, but it will also do a Clip command. So in my opinion, both commands do the same, which is either wrong or redundant (and confusing).

Clip canvas can expand or shrink a dimension of the canvas.

Unclip canvas can only expand a dimension of the canvas.

[Pšenda]

17 minutes ago, anon2 said:

Clip canvas can expand or shrink a dimension of the canvas.

Too bad it's not in line with the description in the Help "Clip canvas only shrink a dimension of the canvas."
This reduces the range of functional options, that could be achieved using the Clip, Unclip, Clip + Unclip commands.

[lb Cake]

Novice question, 

Why would an artist want to rotate the canvas, especially in Designer Persona? I can understand perhaps rotating the canvas in Pixel Persona if  you are drawing with a tablet but I'm curious what other reasons a more experienced (or creative) artist might have for rotating the canvas.

[lepr]

6 minutes ago, lb Cake said:

Novice question, 

Why would an artist want to rotate the canvas, especially in Designer Persona? I can understand perhaps rotating the canvas in Pixel Persona if  you are drawing with a tablet but I'm curious what other reasons a more experienced (or creative) artist might have for rotating the canvas.

Drawing and painting with the Pencil Tool and Vector Brush Tool.