Duplicate font styles displayed in AD

[Gear maker]

I'm using AD 1.8.6 for this project, but I think I've seen this in many versions.  Two of many examples, in Font Book it shows:

In AD I see duplicates and triplicates for the font style of many fonts in both font selection area the context toolbar and the Character panel.  Any idea how I can stop this?

 

 

 

 

[Dan C]

Hi @Gear maker 

I have seen this previously for Variable fonts, however the Apple SD Gothic Neo is a system font and certainly is not showing the same issue here for me!

Can you please open Font Book, then select all of the fonts listed and then File > Validate Fonts. This will check that your font files are not corrupted, or duplicated.

Please do let me know if this flags any errors with this font, or shows it as a duplicated install?

Many thanks in advance!

[Gear maker]

1 hour ago, Dan C said:

Can you please open Font Book, then select all of the fonts listed and then File > Validate Fonts. This will check that your font files are not corrupted, or duplicated.

Hi Dan, everything looks good from this.  Any other ideas?  I appreciate your help.

[Dan C]

Thanks for confirming that for me!

I'm not certain what's causing this currently, and I can't find any previous reports from other users. I've forwarded this to our QA team internally to ask for some support - but as they don't work weekends I may not be able to reply before Monday.

I hope this is okay - I'll be sure to reply here as soon as I have any further information/suggestions

[thomaso]

@Gear maker, on mac maybe resetting the font cache in Affinity  Prefs > Misc > Reset Fonts  can fix it?

[Gear maker]

19 minutes ago, thomaso said:

@Gear maker, on mac maybe resetting the font cache in Affinity  Prefs > Misc > Reset Fonts  can fix it?

thomaso, that did it.  Thank you for your help.  Now it'll stop bugging me.  Thanks Dan for your help also.

[Dan C]

Great news, thanks for your suggestion thomaso

[thomaso]

Since we are there already, for those mac users where the Affinity reset isn't sufficient: in macOS you can reset the system font cache quite simple via terminal command + mac reboot:

Quote

##Cleaning the system font cache OS X includes a command line utility for cleaning the system font cache. To use the utility, you need to log in with an administrator account.

1. Close all applications. (Important!)
2. Start Terminal (located in the Utilities folder; press Command-Shift-U to open this folder).
3. Type sudo atsutil databases -remove and press Return.
4. Type your password at the prompt (no characters will echo back to the screen).
5. When the process is complete, type exit to end your command line session, choose File > Quit to exit Terminal, then restart your Macintosh.

Source: https://gist.github.com/jaredhowland/2da83f0cc0fbb1ac523f
Below it's very first commands, meant for an Extensis Font Manager app only, this page also lists specific font cache folders of Adobe and MS Office.

[Gear maker]

2 hours ago, Dan C said:

Great news, thanks for your suggestion thomaso

Oh no, I thought it had gone away.  But I think...  I exited AD reentered and find if I am in the Character panel and have all fonts selected:

Everything looks correct.  But If I select a group like Sans Serif:

Every font is showing as having multiple font styles.  Every subgroup including Recents is showing the multiples.

In the context toolbar in the font Adobe Heiti Std I had only 3 multiples when I started this entry yesterday, now I have 4 multiples.  Even in "All".

I did a Rest Fonts in the prefs and everything looked good in the context toolbar "All", Adobe Heiti Std had only 1 font type.  Then in the Character Panel I selected a sub group Sans Serif.  Then went to the Context Toolbar and Adobe Heiti Std had 3 types again.

I'm going to tomaso's suggestion.  If I don't come back shortly it's because I screwed something up.

[Gear maker]

I'm back.  But there's no joy in mudville tonight.  After doing the terminal operation twice.  I left every other application closed, just opened AD in a current project.  Only did 3 things then: did a pull down on the Character panel with All Fonts selected, then with Sans Serif selected, then with All fonts selected again.  As you can see the Adobe Heiti Std goes from 1 font style to 3 in 10 seconds flat.  As one final test I used 1.9.0.14 created a new canvas put a simple text on it "abc" and did the test below.  The results were exactly the same in 1.9.0.14 as they have in 1.8.6.

FYI there is really only one of each of the following Airborne, Airborne II, Airborne II Pilot, Airborne Pilot, AMGDT,  AMGDT_IV25, AMGDT_IV50, Andale Mono, Anja Eliane accent, etc.  So some are trippled some are doubled.

Seeing I have fonts listed in multiple sub groups could AD be counting each subgroup as a different font type?  But I'm seeing Adobe Heiti Std in All Fonts, Computer, English, and Sans Serif in Font Book.

[kwaaui]

1 hour ago, Gear maker said:

Everything looks correct.  But If I select a group like Sans Serif:

Every font is showing as having multiple font styles.  Every subgroup including Recents is showing the multiples.

In the context toolbar in the font Adobe Heiti Std I had only 3 multiples when I started this entry yesterday, now I have 4 multiples.  Even in "All".

I did a Rest Fonts in the prefs and everything looked good in the context toolbar "All", Adobe Heiti Std had only 1 font type.  Then in the Character Panel I selected a sub group Sans Serif.  Then went to the Context Toolbar and Adobe Heiti Std had 3 types again.

 

same here

[thomaso]

27 minutes ago, Gear maker said:

After doing the terminal operation twice.  I left every other application closed, just opened AD in a current project. 

Just in case: Did you reset the Affinity cache once more after the terminal + reboot action / before opening an Affinity document? I don't know how its cache works exactly (or where its file(s) is stored to get deleted manually) ... I assume the terminal action doesn't touch the Affinity font cache, so I wonder if the latter may still have stored corrupted info after your 1st reset / before the terminal action.

Mudville? At night? Uh. – Can you move to Breezy Hill temporarily, or try Midway as a compromise, both sound more healthy...

  🙇‍♂️🦄

 

[kwaaui]

There's more about this topic here:

Many identical font styles of a specific font present in the character panel menu

[thomaso]

1 hour ago, Gear maker said:

I did a Rest Fonts in the prefs and everything looked good in the context toolbar "All", Adobe Heiti Std had only 1 font type.  Then in the Character Panel I selected a sub group Sans Serif. 

55 minutes ago, Gear maker said:

Only did 3 things then: did a pull down on the Character panel with All Fonts selected, then with Sans Serif selected, then with All fonts selected again.  As you can see the Adobe Heiti Std goes from 1 font style to 3

This sounds it is fine with "All" whereas a subgroup causes the issue. Since these subgroups, as far I experience, are transferred to Affinity from settings in macOS Fontbook you possibly can delete / recreate groups there?

To me for instance is a lack of Adobe Heiti in this subgroups in Affinity wheres it works with "All". I don't notice any duplicate font in Affinity or macOS. (And I am using an Extensis Font Manager app additionally.) My Sans / Serif groups by their name prefix __1, __2 appear to be customised (I vaguely remember a quick test of this fontbook option months ago).

• Groups menu in Affinity vs. Fontbook:

    

Though in Fontbook these groups are called/iconised "intelligent", both groups don't display Adobe Heiti in Affinity, and do in Fontbook quite weird only, not in alphabetical order, not with "Adobe" but as "Heiti" only ... didn't investigate any further yet, just decided to avoid using these subgroups.

• Adobe Heiti in none of both groups in Affinity:

[Gear maker]

5 hours ago, thomaso said:

Just in case: Did you reset the Affinity cache once more after the terminal + reboot action / before opening an Affinity document? I don't know how its cache works exactly (or where its file(s) is stored to get deleted manually) ... I assume the terminal action doesn't touch the Affinity font cache, so I wonder if the latter may still have stored corrupted info after your 1st reset / before the terminal action.

tomaso, I did do a reboot before and after doing the terminal process.

FYI I did a search for the name Heiti on my computer.  Much to my surprise I had 20 files returned, see below.  I'm kind of assuming the .fontinfo files are not actual fonts.  I'm guessing that the 2 copies of AdobeHeitiStd-Regular.otf are the ones to be concerned about.  I don't know what the repercussions would be with deleting either of these would be.  I'm surprised Font Book said there were no duplicates, unless the ones in the Adobe folder are invisible to it.

5 hours ago, kwaaui said:

There's more about this topic here:

Many identical font styles of a specific font present in the character panel menu

Thanks, good to know I'm not the only one to see this issue.

[thomaso]

1 hour ago, Gear maker said:

tomaso, I did do a reboot before and after doing the terminal process.

What I meant was doing the Affinity Font Reset after the terminal action again. To avoid wrong data in the Affinity cache, still there from the macOS state before the terminal action.

I still suppose the issue is caused by macOS Fontbook.app settings, respectively its subgroups. Affinity is using them for its subgroup menus, too. See my post above (directly before your most recent). – As far I understand you get issues in Affinity only when using a subgroup, correct?

2 hours ago, Gear maker said:

I'm guessing that the 2 copies of AdobeHeitiStd-Regular.otf are the ones to be concerned about.

Possibly not. Adobe is known since decades for placing fonts, regardless of possible duplicates, similar to MS Office. Usually macOS handles them properly, note that one .otf copy is placed in an explicit Adobe folder, unlikely accessible for Affinity. – My search ("adobeheitistd") founds 5 entries, the first 2 within Adobe apps, the last 3 quite like you.

I wonder if duplicate fonts in your user library might matter. To me it appears odd that you have copies of "STHeiti" (light+medium), which seem to be identical files according to their creat/mod. dates. Since Affinity is using your user library it might notice the Users/Library/Fonts folder, too, which seems meant by macOS being available for 3rd party apps, too. – (I have this empty, I didn't need to place fonts there, STHeiti are in System/Library/Fonts only. My custom fonts are managed by a font manager app in a separate user lib folder).

Do you notice in Affinity issues with STHeiti, too?

If yes:
1. For a test move the files in Users/Library/Fonts to the trash > then reboot > check if Affinity font menus changed.
2. If the issue still occurs, repeat font reset routines once more: First reset Affinity fonts only > check if Affinity font menus changed.
3. If the issue still occurs, reset additionally via terminal+reboot > then reset Affinity fonts once more without opening an Affinity document  > check if Affinity font menus changed.

If not:
Currently no idea. Maybe a fontbook.app + related pref files reset? Unfortunately I don't know details for fontbook, just that it is a kind of system app, dealing with fonts for the entire system, which makes it being an influencer.

[Gear maker]

12 hours ago, thomaso said:

As far I understand you get issues in Affinity only when using a subgroup, correct?

That is correct.

 

12 hours ago, thomaso said:

Do you notice in Affinity issues with STHeiti, too?

I don't show a font named STHeiti.  But that doesn't make sense seeing as it's in the search I did.  When I call it up in Font Book it is grayed out and shows "This font must be downloaded to be displayed in this preview mode."  I wonder if this is because when I was trying to figure this out I deleted the bottom and the second from bottom files in my list STHeiti Light.ttc and STHeiti Medium.ttc.  So I have just done what Font Book suggests and clicked in the command in Font Book to download these fonts.  Funny thing is when I search for the name Heiti the list is exactly the same (minus the two copies I deleted) as before I did the download.  But the font does show up in Font Book and in AD "All fonts" with the correct 2 font types, but as expected not in the Sans Serif subgroup.  Yup as soon as I added it to the Sans Serif subgroup AD is showing 4 font types not 2.  So it's definitely the subgroup (collection) that is doing it.

So I will add a bug report for this in the forum.  Thanks thomaso for all your help. Mike

[thomaso]

20 hours ago, Gear maker said:

So I will add a bug report for this in the forum. 

I still doubt it's an issue caused by Affinity (~solvable by Serif developers?) because my impression still is that Affinity depends on info given by macOS, respectively fontbook and its settings/preferences/data base. So possibly you get more success with trying to fix fontbook's data base, respectively its subgroups. It might matter that some system fonts are ".ttc" which seems to indicate a (fontbook?) collection, which possibly is a macOS specific container format for font files, e.g. ".ttf" (see screenshots below).

Note the answer in this Apple forum, recommending the fontbook menu option "Restore Standard Fonts...". https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7065717

I also still wonder for what reason / caused by what process you get listed STHeiti in your Users > Library > Fonts folder, where, in my understanding of macOS, a system font (like STHeiti) never ever should either need to nor should get placed.

On my mac fontbook presents apparently conflicting infos for e.g. STHeiti:
• fontbook names single font weights differently in "All" vs. an "intelligent" subgroup as in "halbfett" vs. "normal" & "fein" vs. "light" (~ german vs english, while in my experience its unusual to get font weights translated at all). – Might just such various name options confuse Affinity?
• fontbook even displays contradictory existence vs. need-to-download for this STHeiti Light.

FYI: On this mac the macOS was a clean install + didn't use the MigrationAssist.app. (I just guess a macOS upgrade might cause confusing info by either leftovers of previous system files or by using the MigrationAssist.app for former Users folder files.) Although I currently still prefer not using fontbook or manually influencing it (incl. its "restore..." option) because of my font manager app, I think possibly a reset / fix of your fontbook's data might help to solve your issues in Affinity.

Just to illustrate fontbook's confusing feedback: Note in this 3 screenshots the differing info about STHeiti weights (fein/light, normal/medium) and about file existence (grayed out vs. tooltip path info vs. downloadable) which gets presented only for the "intelligent" subgroup but not for "All":

So it doesn't surprise me that Affinity obviously gets confused, too, and presents to me not only two identical STHeiti weights (they look identical if assigned) but also presents them with another, third name as "Regular", which probably corresponds with the not-grayed-out "Normal"/"Halbfett" of my fontbook info:

After this last experience: maybe the issue can "simply" be avoided by Affinity if it a.) doesn't use a third name or b.) avoids translating names or c.) interprets fontbook info more detailed / sorted. It depends on the macOS / fontbook info transferred to Affinity + to the way Affinity reads / works with them.

[Gear maker]

3 hours ago, thomaso said:

I still doubt it's an issue caused by Affinity

In my system the Adobe Heiti Std is found in 3 locations the All Files, English smart collection, Sans Serif collection

I found that the Font Book collections are stored in ~/Library/FontCollections  FYI that holds Collections and Smart Collections except for the English smart collection I haven't found where that is located.

I tried a few things, but I think the most interesting is that I removed the Sans Serif.collection file.  And now I always get only 2 font styles listed in AD.  I put the file back in and then get 3 font styles in AD.

I then used the Adobe Heiti Std in a drawing so it was entered in the Recents collection in AD and now I have 4 font styles.  There is no Recents collection in Font Book.  I think that confirms that it is AD that is adding up all the styles found in the collections.

[thomaso]

@Gear maker, thanks for your feedback. It sounds to confirm the last sentence of my previous post. Since the issue meanwhile got bug-reported & logged I don't investigate any further. In case you find more relevant hints it appears sufficient to continue in your recent bug report , there is no need to post in two threads.