SarahH Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 I've just spent over an hour trying to replicate the problem with dummy text, but of course it only happens when I'm using the real thing. 🙄 I'm trying to format a novel. At the beginning of each chapter, I want a "sink" (i.e., the text starting partway down the page). I've tried to do this in two different ways: 1) put a text frame on the actual page, Place the *.docx file, flow the text, and adjust the text frames manually at the start of each chapter; 2) make linked text frames in Master Pages (including one with a sink), Place the *.docx file on the actual page, flow the text, and apply the appropriate Master Page to the start of each chapter. That all works great... except that, sometimes, no matter which method I use, I run into a problem of duplicating text when the chapter starts on a left page. The bottom line of the left page is duplicated on the top of the right page. I can fix this by momentarily adjusting the text frame (this seems to snap the lines back into submission). So what's the problem? This change doesn't stay saved. I can go through my file and fix all the instances of duplicating lines and save the file. Everything looks fine. If I export it at that point, there aren't any problems. But if I save, close the file, and open it again, all the lines that I fixed are duplicated again. This is a huge time-waster, since it means I'll need to go through the whole book every time I want to export because I can't trust that my changes have been saved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomaso Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 I have no idea why a lower line of text becomes unintentionally repeated on the next page. However, I wonder if you could avoid the issue if a text style were assigned at the beginning of each chapter whose desired vertical offset ("sink") is defined as 'space before' in its paragraph style. This might avoid the need for an adjustment of the text frame height / position or of a separate master page for the chapter start. Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twolane Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 I have a style set for Chapter Style, or call it Chapter Title, whatever you're using for styling your chapter title. In Edit Text Style / Paragraph / Spacing, set Space before: 100 pt (or whatever amount of white space you want before the title). Space after: 50 pt (again, the amount of white space after your chapter title). Use space before: Always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahH Posted December 8, 2020 Author Share Posted December 8, 2020 Interesting suggestions, thomaso and Twolane. I'll have to give that a try. (I'm just hoping I can get the lines of text on the facing pages to line up exactly!) Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt.farrell Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, SarahH said: I'm just hoping I can get the lines of text on the facing pages to line up exactly! That's what Baseline Grid is for. Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC:    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090   Laptop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomaso Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 18 minutes ago, SarahH said: (I'm just hoping I can get the lines of text on the facing pages to line up exactly!) Regardless of whether you use space before or baseline grid, it maybe easier to handle ("exactly") if you calculate with a lowest common value, e.g. integer multiples of the font size / line spacing. Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahH Posted December 8, 2020 Author Share Posted December 8, 2020 18 hours ago, walt.farrell said: That's what Baseline Grid is for. I'm not familiar with that feature. I'll have to do a bit of research! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahH Posted December 8, 2020 Author Share Posted December 8, 2020 17 hours ago, thomaso said: Regardless of whether you use space before or baseline grid, it maybe easier to handle ("exactly") if you calculate with a lowest common value, e.g. integer multiples of the font size / line spacing. I did manage to calculate a sink using the font/leading size, but it's still about one pixel off. The perfectionist in me is bothered... but, realistically, it's not going to be noticeable in a printed book! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomaso Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, SarahH said: still about one pixel off. The perfectionist in me is bothered... In case you haven't done already: Maybe the unit 'pixels' helps to get closer to a desired perfection. For the ruler you set it with a right-click in its top left corner, for text and lines it can get separately in the app prefs > user interface. The baseline grid might make these adjustments even faster because it forces all lines to it, quite regardless of their font size or leading. You still can exclude certain objects and/or certain text styles from using the baseline grid. Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff Gabe Posted December 9, 2020 Staff Share Posted December 9, 2020 Hi all, Very hard to say would could go wrong if you can't replicate it. If you do manage to consistently reproduce it, let us know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahH Posted December 13, 2020 Author Share Posted December 13, 2020 On 12/9/2020 at 7:52 AM, Gabe said: Hi all, Very hard to say would could go wrong if you can't replicate it. If you do manage to consistently reproduce it, let us know I will. I'm wondering if it might be due to something in the .docx file that I'm importing. I'll have to give it a few more tries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahH Posted December 22, 2020 Author Share Posted December 22, 2020 I finally managed to duplicate the issue with a copy of H. G. Wells's The Time Machine. (And I duplicated it good... three instances!) I've attached the Publisher file. Chapters XI, XIV, and XVI are where you can see the problem. I've also attached a screenshot of Chapter XVI with the problem circled. As you can imagine, this bug screws up the formatting for the rest of the chapter because everything is off by one line. If I manage to fix it and save, the fix isn't saved for long; the duplicating lines are there again when I reopen the file. I also noticed that, after a fix, flowing the text also caused the fix to revert back to the duplicated text, no matter where it was in the document. It's not the duplication so much that's a problem; that's fixable. The fact that the fixes don't save is the real problem! TheTimeMachine.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twolane Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 I experimented with eight iterations of your upload. When I select all of the bottom para on page 122 by clicking four times, the selection leaves out several words before the end of the para, ending with the w of watch. I did that, saving, exiting and reloading, but nothing changed. It seems the text is getting "squished", for some reason. With invisibles (Text/Show special characters) turned on, I don't see errors in the problem para. I copied the text of chap 16 into one of my templates, and it went in perfectly. I copied and pasted your chapter frame on the top of p. 122, but it proved difficult to place. So, basically, I don't have a solution. However, I'm left wondering if your method of chapter titling might be causing the problem. And then upon further snooping, I did some experimenting with the Paragraph / Baseline Grid settings. I selected all of chap. 16 and deselected Paragraph / Baseline Grid / Align Paragraph to Baseline Grid. The text flowed normally. Saved, exited and reloaded, and the problem returned. Which leads me back to your method of titling chapters, but I can't be certain. So then, I don't have a solution, which essentially makes this entire thing a meaningless post. My apologies for not being able to help. Edited to ask: Is it possible to experiment and reduce the height of your chapter frame substantially? (Or perhaps remove it entirely.) It could be pushing down the text to cause the problem, although I'm not sure why that would be so. The text should flow normally, regardless, I would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt.farrell Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 Adjusting the wrap settings for the chapter title text frame on page 122 fixes the problem, but only temporarily. After a Save (and possibly a reload) it still comes back. By the way, looking at the layer structure for pages 122/123 there are some oddities. There is an empty text frames on the right-hand page (123) that came from the left side of one of the master pages, and one on the left-hand page (122) that come from the right side of one of the master pages. So it appears that pages may have been added, and Masters applied or re-applied multiple times without migrating content. I'm not sure if that has any bearing on the reported problem, though, as removing the empty text frame layers does not resolve the problem. Just another thing I wanted to mention in case it's somehow relevant. Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC:    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090   Laptop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomaso Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 32 minutes ago, walt.farrell said: By the way, looking at the layer structure for pages 122/123 there are some oddities. There is an empty text frames on the right-hand page (123) that came from the left side of one of the master pages, and one on the left-hand page (122) that come from the right side of one of the master pages. So it appears that pages may have been added, and Masters applied or re-applied multiple times without migrating content. This maybe related not to this specific .afpub but to a general, reported + logged issue of APub: It places all objects of an entire master spread even if only 1 document page gets the master applied. This issue gets most obvious for the first, single (e.g. right) page with a master applied: it contains the objects of 2 pages (e.g. the left page, too), placed in the pasteboard area. walt.farrell 1 Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomaso Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 I notice various oddities with this .afpub, some are reproducible, others seem to occur coincidentally only, none solves the copied text line issue durable. 1. I can select the last text line on page 122 – but I can't place the cursor there, instead it gets placed on the copy on page 123. 2. A field (file path) deletion within the body text on pg 3 fixes the copied-line issue on pg 123 immediately. I can save-as the .afpub and the issue doesn't reoccur but it reoccurs after close + reopen. I tried to delete text at other spots in the .afpub but none fixed the copied line. line copy - field remove.m4v 3. Another way to fix the problem is to increase the size of the text frame, although this does not appear to be reliably reproducible. Since the frame on page 122 was probably edited detached, I have to reapply the master first. In some (not recorded) attempts it was sufficient to reapply, in the recording I have to additionally change the specific frame to cause the fix. After that kind of fix I can see the issue coming back during a Save As, note the upper right corner on pg 123 in the moment after "Save" was pressed: line copy - on Save As.m4v 4. (not recorded) I was able once only to fix the copied line issue by deleting some of the (useless?) anchors from the Anchor Panel. With page 123 visible the issue disappeared when deleting anchor 7, after deleting a few other anchors before. – Also deleting any single character in the text copy seems to fix the issue, typing any again can make it reoccur but seems to depend on the character. 5. Maybe not related to the copied line issue but specific in this .afpub: I can't change the color of selected text via the Character Panel, though its swatch displays the new color it doesn't get applied to the text. Whereas it works reliable when using instead either Colors or Swatches Panel. Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomaso Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 18 hours ago, SarahH said: I finally managed to duplicate the issue with a copy of H. G. Wells's The Time Machine. (And I duplicated it good... three instances!) Can you upload the text's source file, too? Possibly one might detect any spot within the source file which causes issues in Apub? Whereas the problem doesn't have to be related to the affected part of text. @Gabe, it reminds me of a recent, reproducible issue (not logged or commented yet) where APub undesirable changes a paragraph style within a single, un-hypened word for no apparent reason, apparently caused by double spaces at entirely different positions within the text:  Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bruce Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 Interesting thing happening when I export as a pdf (PDF (for print) preset) and then try to select the text on the problem pages time machine.mov Quote Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.4 Affinity Designer 2.4.0 | Affinity Photo 2.4.0 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.0 | Beta versions as they appear. I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahH Posted December 24, 2020 Author Share Posted December 24, 2020 On 12/23/2020 at 6:36 AM, thomaso said: Can you upload the text's source file, too? Possibly one might detect any spot within the source file which causes issues in Apub? I used a copy of The Time Machine from Project Gutenberg, found here. I copied and pasted each chapter into Scrivener, compiled that into a Word document, and then Placed it in Publisher (I was trying to follow the exact steps I was using when I encountered the problem in my own work). The problem happens with or without Master Pages (the first time it happened, I'd just set the text up with flowable text frames on each page; I hadn't really gotten the hang of Master Pages yet). I've tried smaller and larger sinks on the first page of every chapter. I've tried not changing the size of the text frame and just adding a certain amount of space before the first paragraph to create the sink. I've done it with and without Baseline Grid. It still happens at least once in every project, and there's no way to predict when it will happen (although it only seems to happen if the chapter starts on the left side of the spread). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomaso Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 1 hour ago, SarahH said: from Project Gutenberg, found here. Can't get the file there but get redirected: Germany excluded "itself" from accessing the Gutenberg Project. Weird, ridiculous... Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, thomaso said: Can't get the file there but get redirected: Germany excluded "itself" from accessing the Gutenberg Project. Weird, ridiculous... It seems to be rather the other way around: Project Gutenberg has excluded its collection from being accessed in Germany. Anyway, can’t you hide your IP address? Quote Alfred Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.4.1 (iPad 7th gen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahH Posted December 24, 2020 Author Share Posted December 24, 2020 Okay. I think I might have found a clue. I've been using drop caps for all these projects. I decided to see what would happen if I removed those on the problem chapters. Bingo! No repeating lines. Everything selects as it should. But... does this mean I can't have pretty drop caps at the beginnings of all my chapters/sections? That sucks. 😔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt.farrell Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 5 minutes ago, SarahH said: But... does this mean I can't have pretty drop caps at the beginnings of all my chapters/sections? At least, not until the bug is fixed, unless you find another workaround. The good news is you've made progress in figuring out what triggers the problem, and that's a good first step to Serif being able to figure out what the bug is. And until that is known they can't begin to fix it.  Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC:    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090   Laptop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomaso Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 3 hours ago, Alfred said: It seems to be rather the other way around: Project Gutenberg has excluded its collection from being accessed in Germany. Anyway, can’t you hide your IP address? ... initiated by a German publisher: Quote On December 30, 2015, PGLAF received notification that a lawsuit had been filed in Germany against it, and its CEO. The lawsuit was concerned with 18 eBooks, by three authors, which are part of the Project Gutenberg collection.    The lawsuit was filed in the Frankfurt am Main Regional Court, in Germany.    The Plaintiff is S. Fischer Verlag, GmbH. Hedderichstrasse 114, 60956 Frankfurt am Main, Germany. The options to hide the IP appear too complex for now, this https://hide.me offers it online but doesn't work to me and ends in the same, blocked result. Alfred 1 Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomaso Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 2 hours ago, SarahH said: Okay. I think I might have found a clue. I've been using drop caps for all these projects. I decided to see what would happen if I removed those on the problem chapters. Bingo! No repeating lines. Everything selects as it should. But... does this mean I can't have pretty drop caps at the beginnings of all my chapters/sections? It appears to be in particular the combination of a quote mark + single character + space which influences the issue (besides the fact of left pages only). At least it could be a workaround if it works for you this simple way: deleting the space. Here I delete + retype the space a few times with an immediate influence to the unwanted line: line copy - drop caps & space.m4v @Gabe, I wonder if the space should get turned into a drop cap here at all? Besides the topic mentioned above where empty lines (~white space) cause an issue at a quite different position I got another issue in mind where a space (+ small caps) within a line causes an unexpected change to its leading. (Like the other topic it is not commented yet by a Serif moderator nor visibly logged):  Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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