Jump to content

Can the Affinity range of products really be called 'pro'? I say no...


Recommended Posts

I have yet to meet anyone who even heard of Serif and Affinity in professional circles - and yet to see any signs of any pro-market penetration. And why would you find budget software stuffed with ho-hum open source code there?

Of course Joe(line) [Happy?] the Plummer little guy(line) can use whatever program for some kind of professional use. That goes for even Scribus/Inkscape/GIMP - and less - but how soon will someone with slightly bigger needs meet the roof? And how soon will you have to capitulate because of lacking features, the endless need of workarounds and because time is money?

Check out the many posts about just that in this forum. There is the answer to your question. Also notice the very obvious lack of professionals here. And the abundance of fanboys and apologists.

Beggars can't be choosers. People here refer to Inkscape and Xara and other cheap tools constantly. Affinity is battling for exactly that segment of customers and trying to convince the world that it is professional. But this is what you get:

No issues with footnotes though. Because the feature does not exist. But the workbook does already? Haha. Marketing got you. City market marketing. "The strongest man in the world" cirkus marketing.

  • "The user interface is supposed to work for me - I am not supposed to work for the user interface."
  • Computer-, operating system- and software agnostic; I am a result oriented professional. Look for a fanboy somewhere else.
  • “When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger.” ― Confucius
  • Not an Affinity user og forum user anymore. The software continued to disappoint and not deliver.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 78
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Some of you guys need to get off your 'I'm such a professional' high horse, effectively insulting everyone else here you don't even know. A professional can do professional work with a crayon. I'm inc

About: Can the Affinity range of products really be called 'pro'? The premise of the initial post is flawed. Serif Affinity applications are designed meticulously with usability and performance a

I think @JET_Affinity's point about 'what is professional' is spot on as it's largely open to interpretation. Can you do professional work in Affinity's tools? Absolutely! Are they different from what

1 minute ago, Jowday said:

And why would you find budget software stuffed with ho-hum open source code there?

Why do you find 'pro' software stuffed with open source code? Adobe does too: 'At Adobe, we rely on so many open source software projects to build our own products, it would be hard to count them all.'  (https://www.adobe.io/open.html).

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Jowday said:

I have yet to meet anyone who even heard of Serif and Affinity in professional circles - and yet to see any signs of any pro-market penetration. And why would you find budget software stuffed with ho-hum open source code there?

I work as a retoucher in the ecom industry and tried to get rid of PS and switch over to Affinity. Unfortunately, the pen tool doesn't work in a logical way at all and I also can't save the paths in a TIF or PSD format. It's a bummer but as long as Affinity is not taking care of those needs there is no way they will enter the pro market.

I would love to see them starting a pro edition for their software. I would be happy to pay more for a more usable version of Affinity Photo. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/6/2020 at 10:24 AM, Jowday said:

Also notice the very obvious lack of professionals here. And the abundance of fanboys and apologists.

Again, climb down off your friggin' pedestal, mister 'professional.' You don't know diddly about the careers of other people here. Since the Affinity programs are just for poor rank 'beggars' so beneath you , why are you wasting your time here, incessantly spouting your ridicule? How does someone of your obvious (because you say so) time-is-money 'professional' status have a productive moment to lose dinking around with a $50 program that's obviously going nowhere (because you say so)?

JET

Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, JET_Affinity said:

Again, climb down off your friggin' pedestal, mister 'professional.' You don't know diddly about the careers of other people here. Since the Affinity programs are just for poor rank 'beggars' so beneath you , why are you wasting your time here, incessantly spouting your ridicule? How does someone of your obvious (because you say so) time-is-money 'professional' status have a productive moment to loose dinking around with a $50 program that's obviously going nowhere (because you say so)?

JET

Someone is triggered :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

69F32244-BE9D-421C-9FE4-E2C3E154F32A.jpeg.5ea6c85658bb9ad0825b1b180f1fc2d0.jpeg

21.5 iMAC Retina 4K display MacOS High Sierra v. 10.13.6.  Memory 8 GB, 1TB Fusion Drive          
  Affinity Publisher 1.8.4, Affinity Photo 1.8.4, Affinity Designer 1.8.4
MacBook Pro 13" 2020 with M1 chip, Big Sur v. 11.3.1.   16GB unified memory, 256GB  SSD storage
    Affinity Publisher 1.9.3, Affinity Photo 1.9.3, Affinity Designer 1.9.3
 iPad Pro 12.9 2020 (4th Gen. IOS 14.5.1); Apple pencil.   Wired and Magic mice.9_9

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/1/2020 at 5:51 AM, Mithferion said:

How can Tableau Desktop be considered a "Pro" level tool for Business Intelligence, when it requires you to give it very simple and plain tables, because joining them makes it more confused than a homeless man under house-arrest?

How can Oracle BI / Visual Analizer be considered a suitable tool for users when you have to spend so much time configuring it, modeling the tables, until you get a simple table result?

How can anyone even consider Microsoft Power BI when it's a just Excel on steroids, lacking a better language than what DAX has to offer? And why do they need you to install a Gateway to auto-refresh the Data?

Ah, sorry, just complaining about things in my job... some so-called professional tools from no-name companies make me a bit angry...

Best regards!

image.png.c765ba7a69ed6a196ca5a86f79a22f05.png

Best regards!

You'll never know what you can do until you get it up as high as you can go!   

AMD FX 8350 :: Radeon HD 7870 :: Windows 10 ::  http://mithferion.deviantart.com/

Oxygen Icons :: Free Quality Fonts :: Public Domain Pictures :: iOS 11 Design Resources :: iOS App Icon Template :: Hot to do High Quality Art :: Mesh Warp / Distort Tool Considerations

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 months later...

About: Can the Affinity range of products really be called 'pro'?

The premise of the initial post is flawed. Serif Affinity applications are designed meticulously with usability and performance as primary considerations. It is this meticulous attention to detail and aggressive responsiveness to the Affinity community in providing new features and refinements that qualifies Serif Affinity applications as 'pro level'.

Affinity applications are still in their 1.x release. When Adobe Photoshop 7.x supported 1 undo level, with other photo editors supporting hundreds. Many (including myself ─ when Photoshop 7.x was current) would argue; one undo level in a photo editor disqualifies the application as being considered 'pro'. Yet Photoshop evolved, which required significant time, refinement and monetary investment. The insinuation that Affinity applications are not 'pro level' because they are not equal to applications that have been around for decades insults the intelligence of users in this community and the impressive efforts invested by Serif.

I saw a video released a week after Affinity Photo beta went public that claimed Affinity Photo was not a serious application and that it shouldn't be considered because Photoshop was better. For god sake, should we throw out a 2-month-old child because they can't drive a car, express complex ideas or solve sophisticated problems? The video was taken down within an hour of me posting my analysis of the author as having an emotional investment in Adobe being superior. Think I hit a nerve?

Sure, Serif Affinity applications aren't perfect. I defy anyone to make the argument that Adobe applications are not without their flaws. Affinity applications have been released with features that Adobe has since incorporated into their counterparts. Affinity application feature implementations, refinements and fixes have been released at an aggressive pace by any reasonable standards. It's frustrating when features fail to work as they should, however what application has not demonstrated such problems. Adobe In Design has had more than its share of issues resulting in the application crashing. Does that mean In Design is not a 'pro level' application?

'Pro level' does not mean all features and refinements in a 1.x release are equal to applications that have evolved over generations. 'Pro level' means features, speed and usability are sufficient for use in production by competent users, and that the refinements incorporated in the applications are within a higher threshold of quality. Serif has secured their place as a development company that can bring advanced features and revolutionary implementation from concept to production on a mass scale against such a powerful competitor as Adobe with decades of established market share and vastly more resources, and still be a highly respected contender by many professionals.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Michael Lloyd said:

About: Can the Affinity range of products really be called 'pro'?

The premise of the initial post is flawed. Serif Affinity applications are designed meticulously with usability and performance as primary considerations. It is this meticulous attention to detail and aggressive responsiveness to the Affinity community in providing new features and refinements that qualifies Serif Affinity applications as 'pro level'.

Affinity applications are still in their 1.x release. When Adobe Photoshop 7.x supported 1 undo level, with other photo editors supporting hundreds. Many (including myself ─ when Photoshop 7.x was current) would argue; one undo level in a photo editor disqualifies the application as being considered 'pro'. Yet Photoshop evolved, which required significant time, refinement and monetary investment. The insinuation that Affinity applications are not 'pro level' because they are not equal to applications that have been around for decades insults the intelligence of users in this community and the impressive efforts invested by Serif.

I saw a video released a week after Affinity Photo beta went public that claimed Affinity Photo was not a serious application and that it shouldn't be considered because Photoshop was better. For god sake, should we throw out a 2-month-old child because they can't drive a car, express complex ideas or solve sophisticated problems? The video was taken down within an hour of me posting my analysis of the author as having an emotional investment in Adobe being superior. Think I hit a nerve?

Sure, Serif Affinity applications aren't perfect. I defy anyone to make the argument that Adobe applications are not without their flaws. Affinity applications have been released with features that Adobe has since incorporated into their counterparts. Affinity application feature implementations, refinements and fixes have been released at an aggressive pace by any reasonable standards. It's frustrating when features fail to work as they should, however what application has not demonstrated such problems. Adobe In Design has had more than its share of issues resulting in the application crashing. Does that mean In Design is not a 'pro level' application?

'Pro level' does not mean all features and refinements in a 1.x release are equal to applications that have evolved over generations. 'Pro level' means features, speed and usability are sufficient for use in production by competent users, and that the refinements incorporated in the applications are within a higher threshold of quality. Serif has secured their place as a development company that can bring advanced features and revolutionary implementation from concept to production on a mass scale against such a powerful competitor as Adobe with decades of established market share and vastly more resources, and still be a highly respected contender by many professionals.

Professional software means just that you can rely upon it in with your business. That the software is so reliable, you can easily use it without worrying it's gonna fail here or there. It means that everything works as expected.

To me, honestly, it feels that Serif doesn't even develop automated testing suite (that is standard for any bigger application), otherwise it's hard to understand how often new updates break old stuff that was working for years.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CLC said:

Professional software means just that you can rely upon it in with your business. That the software is so reliable, you can easily use it without worrying it's gonna fail here or there. It means that everything works as expected.

To me, honestly, it feels that Serif doesn't even develop automated testing suite (that is standard for any bigger application), otherwise it's hard to understand how often new updates break old stuff that was working for years.

The truth is that Serif is really not doing well with the update process, there are really a lot of complaints about completely non-functional applications. And if there is a total blockage of work, because the user has nowhere to return (either the downgrade does not allow the store, or it is prevented by backward incompatibility of documents), then it is really alarming and "unprofessional".
After the experience with previous upgrades I stay to versions 1.8.5, and wait for the applications to be fine-tuned to normal usability.
Serif should consider a way to gradually release updates, something like the Windows + Insider program. Beta testing, also due to the fact that there are malfunctions in the release version and bugs that were not even in the beta, is obviously completely insufficient.

Affinity Store: Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 1.8.5.703.
Windows 10 Pro, Version 20H2, Build 19042.610.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080.
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/15/2021 at 4:40 AM, Michael Lloyd said:

Serif Affinity applications are designed meticulously with usability

Then why are there so many posts here about problems with usability? I have encountered some myself - things which are counterintuitive and completely misleading.

 

On 3/15/2021 at 4:40 AM, Michael Lloyd said:

Affinity applications are still in their 1.x release.

Version numbers are unimportant. Firefox is now on version 80-something. When it is really about version 6 in true terms with features.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/15/2021 at 11:27 AM, Pšenda said:

I stay to versions 1.8.5

I see you are using Windows. On a Mac I keep the previous version of AP installed by renaming it to the version number. In due course I'll delete it. It may be possible on Windows, but I don't know.

1501649980_Screenshot2021-03-16at11_49_54.png.654c0f50d00a2114438ac1fb2da6b82f.png

 

On 3/15/2021 at 11:27 AM, Pšenda said:

it is prevented by backward incompatibility of documents

I would expect that to be the case. If version B has more features than version A, and you open a 'B' document in the 'A' app, what is A to do with these unknown features? 

 

J.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

I would expect that to be the case. If version B has more features than version A, and you open a 'B' document in the 'A' app, what is A to do with these unknown features? 

??? Yes, of course, am I saying anything else?
I only state that if someone saves their working documents in the new version, even if they then return to the previous functional version, they can no longer edit these documents.
Downgrading can therefore be quite complicated (need to restore from backups, loss of work done in the new version, etc.).

Affinity Store: Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 1.8.5.703.
Windows 10 Pro, Version 20H2, Build 19042.610.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080.
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200.

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

It may be possible on Windows, but I don't know.

Of course, too, at least for the Affinity Store versions, I can easily install all the versions that Serif has ever released.
But what will it do for me? If I save the document in a new/newer version, and then I find out that this version is unusable for serious work (it will crash when making the required modification), then I will not open it in older/previous versions.

Affinity Store: Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 1.8.5.703.
Windows 10 Pro, Version 20H2, Build 19042.610.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080.
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/15/2021 at 10:52 AM, CLC said:

Professional software means just that you can rely upon it in with your business. That the software is so reliable, you can easily use it without worrying it's gonna fail here or there. It means that everything works as expected.

Not only that, professional also means that an extensive, powerful and well-functioning feature set is available here, with which the domain-specific tasks can be carried out for which the software is intended and predestined to use. And in that regard all the Affinity apps do lack certain pro functionality so far.

On 3/15/2021 at 10:52 AM, CLC said:

To me, honestly, it feels that Serif doesn't even develop automated testing suite (that is standard for any bigger application), otherwise it's hard to understand how often new updates break old stuff that was working for years.

I don't know if they use internally any more agile test-driven development processes here, but usually when developing complex software you also make use of code tests via testing frameworks (aka  "first testing then coding") and for GUI apps additional some GUI test frameworks. - Though if there is a lot of interaction needed, you still need to do a bunch of manual testing here, since automated testing suites don't always recognize everything here.

On 3/15/2021 at 12:27 PM, Pšenda said:

The truth is that Serif is really not doing well with the update process, there are really a lot of complaints about completely non-functional applications. And if there is a total blockage of work, because the user has nowhere to return (either the downgrade does not allow the store, or it is prevented by backward incompatibility of documents), then it is really alarming and "unprofessional".
After the experience with previous upgrades I stay to versions 1.8.5, and wait for the applications to be fine-tuned to normal usability.
Serif should consider a way to gradually release updates, something like the Windows + Insider program. Beta testing, also due to the fact that there are malfunctions in the release version and bugs that were not even in the beta, is obviously completely insufficient.

That's right and is my impression too here, in the latest 1.8.x and 1.9.x release cicles they messed up a lot when performing their release deployments. Sometimes I got the impression that they were frantically and prematurely providing a version .

☛ Affinity Designer 1.9.3 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.9.3 ◆ OSX El Capitan

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

Not only that, professional also means that an extensive, powerful and well-functioning feature set is available here, with which the domain-specific tasks can be carried out for which the software is intended and predestined to use. And in that regard all the Affinity apps do lack certain pro functionality so far.

Yes, but you can still work professionally with that - I will simply use appropriate/better tools and applications for missing/insufficient functions.
But if the application does not start at all after the update, or crashes immediately when trying to open the file, or crashes when I want to perform another normal operation, or even destroys the file and loses important work *), then it's not acceptable and for professional work is not very useful.
*) And the fact that somewhere on the forum deep in the posts Serif "informs" that it is not appropriate to use external storage for work, because it can be damaged, is completely insufficient and unprofessional.

Affinity Store: Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 1.8.5.703.
Windows 10 Pro, Version 20H2, Build 19042.610.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080.
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It always also depends on what different people mean and understand by the term professional itself, related to a software here also what they expect it to offer. - For example as a developer who has to do a lot of Java development in the field of huge business distributed systems (backend and frontend development etc.), I need appropriate professional development tools. One such tool here which offers nearly all in contrast to most other competitors is "IntelliJ Ultimate", which I call a powerful professional development tool in this regard.

☛ Affinity Designer 1.9.3 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.9.3 ◆ OSX El Capitan

Link to post
Share on other sites

In my opinion, "pro" software means that the pro user understands what the software can do for them, what are its strengths and what are its limits. It's a tool.

When I'm creating illustrations, I still prefer to work "analog" with oil pastels and a pencil, rather than drawing digitally with a tablet. (I may create digital sketches though.) Of all "pro" oil pastels, I'm totally partial to the Jaxon brand. I don't remember why exactly, but back in the 1980s I have likely tried a few different brands and Jaxon simply felt "good" in and on my fingers; as in literally on my fingers, apparently having a low melting point. Does it make the other brands less "pro" because they didn't work for me? No. Jaxon are just ideal for my technique.

Affinity apps also feel "good" under my fingers. Much better than all Schmadobe apps ever did, despite all of their pro superfeatures.
It took a few years to get used to the Affinity mindset, but now they are already making money for me.
But then again, it also took me years to accept that I can't run Freehand 9 in the MacOS Classic environment forever and I had to accept to use Ill-frustrator.

Now… let's talk about the bugs:D

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, loukash said:

In my opinion, "pro" software means that the pro user understands what the software can do for them, what are its strengths and what are its limits. It's a tool.

 
The Oxford Languages dict tells ...
 
professional
/prəˈfɛʃ(ə)n(ə)l/
 
adjective
  1. relating to or belonging to a profession. ("young professional people")
  2. engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime. ("a professional boxer")

noun

  1. a person engaged or qualified in a profession. ("professionals such as lawyers and surveyors")
  2. a person engaged in a specified activity, especially a sport, as a main paid occupation rather than as a pastime. ("his first season as a professional")
15 hours ago, loukash said:

Now… let's talk about the bugs

Bugs? - Since I work in the IT industry myself and since developers are usually all colleagues here, I recommend the following if the customer is on your neck again ... 😉

Of course not meant seriously here!  😀

☛ Affinity Designer 1.9.3 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.9.3 ◆ OSX El Capitan

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, loukash said:

I'm making money using Affinity as a tool, so it's "professional software" by this definition.

Somehow like that, though I would go even a little bit further and say by a users profession and also related to the software strengths and domain then. - Since I can even do something with Paint or Notepad/TextEdit and sell that stuff afterwards. But the latter here are not what I would call professional software at all.

☛ Affinity Designer 1.9.3 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.9.3 ◆ OSX El Capitan

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

I would go even a little bit further and say by a users profession and also related to the software strengths and domain then. - Since I can even do something with Paint or Notepad/TextEdit and sell that stuff afterwards. But the latter here are not what I would call professional software at all.

Yep, that's more or less what I meant by "the pro user understands what the software can do for them, what are its strengths and what are its limits".

But fair enough. The thread topic is literally "Can the Affinity range of products really be called 'pro'?", so any nitpicking on semantics is fully justified here! ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please note there is currently a delay in replying to some post. See pinned thread in the Questions forum. These are the Terms of Use you will be asked to agree to if you join the forum. | Privacy Policy | Guidelines | We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.