The deal with pixel layers and clipping.

[gidkid]

I'm sure this has been talked about a lot so feel free to point me to resources. I'm only asking here because all the videos I've watched don't address these things AFIAK.

OK, so say you have a group, and in it you have adjustment layers. Without a pixel layer in the group all the adjustments pass through to what is underneath as expect.

If you put a pixel or shape layer in the group, it acts like a mask on the group. This is different than PS but I can get my head around it. OK so far. What is weird is...why does it effect the groups visibility too?  If I disable that pixel layer, everything in the group disappears.

I can get around this with more sub groups and masks, but I'm just wondering what the reasoning is. I'd think if I disabled the pixel layer, the rest of the group contents would just act like I'd never put it in the group. This behavior persists even if I set the pixel layer to have a blending mode so I guess it's only looking at the alpha channel for this part yeah?

 

[lepr]

We've been told by Serif representatives that the schizoid Passthrough blend mode is "by design". We've not been told the Serif definition of "by design", though; perhaps it is "as a consequence of the software's design" rather than "as deliberately designed".

To make Passthrough mode behave consistently and rationally (as it does in Photoshop), put a white Fill layer (or vector Rectangle covering the canvas) with Multiply blend mode as the lowest member of the Passthrough Group.

[Old Bruce]

34 minutes ago, gidkid said:

If you put a pixel or shape layer in the group, it acts like a mask on the group. This is different than PS but I can get my head around it. OK so far. What is weird is...why does it effect the groups visibility too?  If I disable that pixel layer, everything in the group disappears.

If you put a pixel layer in the group as you have in your example then the Curves Adjustment layer will act upon the Pixel Layer.

What are you expecting/wanting to happen? If you want it to affect everything below it then you have to either ungroup the adjustment layer and its pixel layer companion or include the the layers below in that group.

[lepr]

38 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

If you put a pixel layer in the group as you have in your example then the Curves Adjustment layer will act upon the Pixel Layer.

Restricting the adjustment to the Pixel object is the expected result when the Group has Normal blend mode, not Passthrough blend mode (except in Affinityland).

38 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

What are you expecting/wanting to happen?

The mode is Passthrough, and so the result should be as if the contained layers are not grouped.

[Old Bruce]

10 minutes ago, anon2 said:

Restricting the adjustment to the Pixel object is the expected result when the Group has Normal blend mode, not Passthrough blend mode.

The mode is Passthrough, and so the result should be as if the contained layers are not grouped.

These are, in my opinion, false assumptions. Passthrough does not imply that the group will behave as though it is not a group. Passthrough means the blending modes of the different layers will have their effect in the group and the result will  be passed through.

I will use a group to restrict the effects of the adjustment layers to image/pixel/curves layers in that group. If there are no layers other than adjustments then the adjustments will affect every image/pixel/curves layer under that group.

What is happening here is misinterpretation of a poorly named blend mode.

[lepr]

 

37 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

What is happening here is misinterpretation of a poorly named blend mode.

Misinterpretation by Affinity developers?

 

[gidkid]

I'm not trying to fight the system or anything, just want to know how it works. 😁

I know now how to get it to do what I want now, but I was more curious as to why a pixel layer even when disabled, acts like a mask in a group. I figured if I disabled it, then the group would act like it does without a pixel layer, but instead it just acts like the pixel layer has a black alpha channel and everything in the group disappears. This is the only part I can't really get my head around as a design feature.

[walt.farrell]

6 minutes ago, gidkid said:

I'm not trying to fight the system or anything, just want to know how it works. 😁

I know now how to get it to do what I want now, but I was more curious as to why a pixel layer even when disabled, acts like a mask in a group. I figured if I disabled it, then the group would act like it does without a pixel layer, but instead it just acts like the pixel layer has a black alpha channel and everything disappears. This is the only part I can't really get my head around as a design feature.

The function is simple: if the group contains a pixel layer, the function of any adjustments in the group is restricted to that layer. Hiding the pixel layer does not change whether the group contains the layer; it's still there, and the adjustments still apply to id, but the effects are invisible (just as the pixel layer is).

[gidkid]

1 minute ago, walt.farrell said:

The function is simple: if the group contains a pixel layer, the function of any adjustments in the group is restricted to that layer. Hiding the pixel layer does not change whether the group contains the layer; it's still there, and the adjustments still apply to id, but the effects are invisible (just as the pixel layer is).

LOL, I get how it works, it just honestly is really, really weird.

It's like the parent even though visually there is no indication of that. I have no comparison to draw from any other software that works exactly this way. I mean, if it was a node based editor, I could probably see it still linked up to some channels, but it's opaque to the user. IMHO, if I disable the layer, then to the comp the layer shouldn't be there and should be passed through, but in Affinity it's still "there" and acting like it's the parent of everything. Very, very confusing.

I think for me I'll just delete a pixel layer in this usage case instead of "disabling" it or throwing in some junk layer at the bottom of a group that is always on, else I'm bound to run into some confusion on more complex (to me) comps.