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Adobe Photoshop 2021 beta.....bloody hell!!!

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8 hours ago, Slammer said:

By the way, I still use Quark in it´s 2016 reincarnation. Again, it´s a great layout program and could wipe the floor with indesign with a little effort but it would seem that they have not learnt from their 1990ties Napalm-ing from Adobe and are again set to piss off their remaining acolytes.

You can say that again. My QuarkXPress 2018 just failed to reactivate itself after a combo of recent BIOS update + Windows 10 build 20H2. Tried to deactivate and transfer without a success, and the customer support advise was to upgrade to their "Advantage" rental plan. We still use Master CS6 package for most that we do (on Windows) --- that's what perpetual license means. Recently upgraded to Adobe Acrobat 2020 (after having considered pdfToolbox 11/12 deal as an alternative) and purchased Photography CC plan after a decade-long Photoshop CS6 usage, and no regrets, both worth every penny. Affinity apps begin to be in a state of offering at least a very useful toolbox, so will definitely continue to give full support for this development!

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The brutal truth behind Photoshop 2021 is that in the modern world companies needs tools that helps them make more in less time. For entertainment of gadget junkies and couch potatoes more than anything (panem et circenses). Imagine the digital tools in 20 years time. "Jaw dropping stunning" landscape photos or landscapes that does not/no longer exist. Models that do not exist and look like nothing from the real world. We already have much of this. I am not looking for such features - but will probably have to use them. I like software assisting me - not replacing me. 

But Adobe invented and created a lot of their tools themselves from scratch since version 1 of Photoshop. Was - and is - the mother of many tools and concepts. Other companies - Serif especially - simply didn't do this. Didn't invent much - rather copied/built upon tons of existing stuff and established practices. Includes tons of libraries and open source code components. How many of the features in Photo do you REALLY think Serif made from scratch themselves? Getting as much as they can from open source libraries, Windows and OS X. (RAW demosaic fx). Probably smart in most cases. If the results are great. Not always.

So... comparing the speed of development between Adobe and Serif is simply so amazingly ridiculous.


  • "The user interface is supposed to work for me - I am not supposed to work for the user interface."
  • Computer-, operating system- and software agnostic; I am a result oriented professional. Look for a fanboy somewhere else.
  • “When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger.” ― Confucius
  • Not an Affinity user og forum user anymore. The software continued to disappoint and not deliver.

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9 hours ago, Jowday said:

Models that do not exist and look like nothing from the real world. [...] I am not looking for such features - but will probably have to use them

Indeed. And this example might be one of the most wanted feature for a lot of designers. No more hiring a good photographer and/or models, no more waiting for either of them in order to get the results you wanted. No more trouble or extra costs due to negotiating about licenses, if you want to prolong or extend the initial purpose of the images and so on and so on...


»A designer's job is to improve the general quality of life. In fact, it's the only reason for our existence.«
Paul Rand (1914-1996)

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  • "The user interface is supposed to work for me - I am not supposed to work for the user interface."
  • Computer-, operating system- and software agnostic; I am a result oriented professional. Look for a fanboy somewhere else.
  • “When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger.” ― Confucius
  • Not an Affinity user og forum user anymore. The software continued to disappoint and not deliver.

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After years of using PS for my work I recently started using Affinity Photo for work on my 3D product renderings after some colleagues made me finally take the plunge. My main reasons are:

  1. Work in 32bit the whole time vs. 16bit with some 32bit smart objects
  2. File sizes that save fast on any of my drives at 100-500mb vs. 3-5GB in PS compressed (saves painfully slow) or 10-15GB uncompressed PS files that only saves fast on my NVME drives.
  3. Performance while working. Affinity isn't crazy fast on my files, but it's faster than PS, and the previews are nicer/faster. AMD 1950x and a 2070 RTX system for ref.
  4. Affinity has many non-destructive tools.

I have only watched a few PS 2021 previews, but most of the things added seem more applicable to photo editing in a photo-retouch work grind way and using AI/machine learning in ways that don't seem to enhance my workflow. Is there anything in there that makes all the tools work in 32bit, enhances performance on large files or cuts down on the file size bloat?

I think the only thing I saw of interest to me was the seamless texture painting, but honestly 99% of the time now I'm going to use Substance (which is probably where the tech for PS comes from) or something else for these things. Maybe it will be more useful for pattern designers, though a lot of them will just work in vector using AI or AD or even on the ipad in apps like procreate so this is a bit of a nice to have but not ground breaking IMHO.

For me it has nothing to do with the cost as I can easily afford PS and affinity and will continue to do so, it's just more about actual work flow and time. I'm probably not the target audience for either PS or Affinity Photo, but at least Serif seems to take more notice of 3D workflows. We just need an actual cryptomate workflow (not just color ID like the tutorials are showing). 😁

 

 

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I am still beginning to notice how people say that Serif is very slow to develop, but Potatoshop came out in 1990, 30 years ago, Affinity Photo came out in  2015, 5 years ago, Knowing all the difficulties of software development, how many problems can be and jump out Serif has made very good software. Adobe got drunk making old stinky software by subscription shoving the functionality under the old core until it all burst. It's a pity the talents are disappearing right now adding stupid sliders, stupid algorithms.
P.S. Familiar designers who work in a global company they work in PS 2014, lol , and they easily do everything they need. I'm not saying you shouldn't update the program, do not need to add raw functionality and 5 years to patch it.

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55 minutes ago, awado said:

I am still beginning to notice how people say that Serif is very slow to develop, but Potatoshop came out in 1990, 30 years ago, Affinity Photo came out in  2015, 5 years ago, Knowing all the difficulties of software development, how many problems can be and jump out Serif has made very good software. Adobe got drunk making old stinky software by subscription shoving the functionality under the old core until it all burst. It's a pity the talents are disappearing right now adding stupid sliders, stupid algorithms.
P.S. Familiar designers who work in a global company they work in PS 2014, lol , and they easily do everything they need. I'm not saying you shouldn't update the program, do not need to add raw functionality and 5 years to patch it.

Hm. Photoshop V.1 probably has as much in common with its recent versions as Affinity Photo with Serif's PhtotoPlus, some kind of predecessor of Affinity Photo. Latter is way older than 5 years. So, comparing Adobe's 30 years of experience to Serif's 5 years with Affinity apps is comparing apples to oranges. Serif had quite some history in DTP (hence, experience) before they started with their Affinity suite. 

I seriously don't know why a lot of people feel such aversion against either Photoshop or Affinity and feel the urge to convince others about their beloved tool is the one and only. I'm using both, although I'm trying to get more focus on the Affinity apps, because I like the idea of having an alternative to the big fish in design business. Yet, publisher is far from being usable in a professional environment at least in its current state. Designer still lacks basic functions, even true vector brushes are missing (a shame for a vector/design program nowadays, really). Photo also has some shortcomings if you have to deal with some tasks beyond the common photo retouch/manipulation/editing. 

Yes, I'm aware that a lot of daily design jobs could be done with the Affinity suite, but why can't the "Affinity fanboys and -girls" accept, that the suite isn't a full replacement for Adobe's in its current state and maybe never will be? Also, the other way round: Why is it so hard for "Adobe's cheerleaders" to accept, that it's possible for a lot of (even professional) designers to use Affinity's apps in order to do their job quickly and easily? 

And this whole debate about "who's bigger" or "who has more experience", neither the payment structure matter at all. If I have a job to do, I use the tool which—to me—works best for finishing it. The tool doesn't make the designer more or less professional actually. 

Side note: If jobs done don't pay Adobe's subscriptions, one can't be a professional designer. Period. One might be hobbyist, dedicated amateur or probably call himself a professional designer because one sells stuff like "I create your 'professional logo' for 10 Dollar" at fiverr, facebook marketplace or Reddit. I wouldn't deem either of those professionals, sorry. No matter how good the works are which they create. My humble definition of being "professional" is not about the quality alone, but also about the ability to make your living with the job.

 


»A designer's job is to improve the general quality of life. In fact, it's the only reason for our existence.«
Paul Rand (1914-1996)

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The Integration of the store bought items seems familiar with the integration within the beta versions from the Affinity Suite.
Other Features like the previewed cloud stuff is in my opinion a privacy scandal awaiting directly around the corner.

Some paid single solving programs which allowed sky replacements or  AI/Neural Network based skin repair tools are mostly obsolete now for photoshop users.
its getting interesting now and I am eagerly awaiting what all the non-Adobe developers are going to make and what cool stuff Serif is brewing up.

 


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3 hours ago, Andy05 said:

Side note: If jobs done don't pay Adobe's subscriptions, one can't be a professional designer. Period. One might be hobbyist, dedicated amateur or probably call himself a professional designer because one sells stuff like "I create your 'professional logo' for 10 Dollar" at fiverr, facebook marketplace or Reddit. I wouldn't deem either of those professionals, sorry. No matter how good the works are which they create. My humble definition of being "professional" is not about the quality alone, but also about the ability to make your living with the job.

 

Andy05, If I haven’t understood wrongly, you are saying that those who do not earn good money with what they do, can’t be considered a professional (but correct me if I misunderstood you). I am sorry to say that it seems we live in different worlds or at least, we do think differently.

There are lots of countries where there is a lot of unemployment for which reason professionals of any kind are being paid little money. There are countries in which, because of their economic situation, people in general are paid pitiful salaries, and there are countries in which now and again, restrictions to be able to pay in foreign money are imposed (restrictions of the kind might come and go and affect the feasibility to keep paying an engaged rent to a company abroad). I live in one of those countries, so I know what I am talking about.

Lots of companies from first world countries or multinationals appeal to professionals (and labourers) from third world countries because, even if them being good professionals, they can be paid little money.
My nephew and my wife’s daughter’s boyfriend work (through the internet) for American firms (from the USA) in computer programming (the first one works for an oil company). They are paid a tenth of what somebody in the USA earns for the same job they do here and, because of the coronavirus, although those firms have been firing employees from the USA, they (both) are keeping their works (so they are probably not bad professionals).

Just to give an example of the point I am trying to make, I can mention that doctors in my country that work for the public health system earn very little money, and they can be excellent. Luis Federico Leloir received a Nobel Prize in chemistry, and he lived in a very humble way earning little money. Rene Favaloro was the doctor who developed the heart bypass surgery, he received lots of international prizes, and ended up committing suicide overwhelmed by debts.

And regarding paying for Adobe’s licensing, though probably not nowadays (it has become more difficult to do in time) most people in my country used to work with pirated software, even in governmental offices. They only paid for a windows licence, but Photoshop, Autocad and even Microsoft Office they hacked. I am against piracy and think that smaller program developers ought to be supported and that it is healthy to do so, so instead of using hacked programs, I went for alternative programs and paid for them (and I have been mocked by my pairs for doing this). And therefore I bought and used Serif’s programs (among others) with which as I have already said before in this thread, I could get my work done and never had a compatibility problem when having to share my work with others (I am not a designer as you Andy, but an architect, urban designer and city planner, and a hobbyist photographer).

All of those mentioned being some of the reasons for which I do respect professionals even if they have to struggle for a living, and even if they can’t afford to pay for Adobe’s licence (rent) or even if they opt not to do so for whichever reason.

And sorry for this intervention, but this thread seems now and then to lose its way with regards to what this forum I think is supposed to be for (at least in my humble -honestly humble- opinion), and I have lost it myself this time I ought to recognize. So my apologies.

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2 hours ago, AlejandroJ said:

Just to give an example of the point I am trying to make, I can mention that doctors in my country that work for the public health system earn very little money, and they can be excellent. Luis Federico Leloir received a Nobel Prize in chemistry, and he lived in a very humble way earning little money. Rene Favaloro was the doctor who developed the heart bypass surgery, he received lots of international prizes, and ended up committing suicide overwhelmed by debts.

Yes, and I'd call those professionals. They are working mainly as doctors for their living, hence as professionals in their job (at least I guess so). But whether a professional is successful with his job, whether he can earn enough for a living or struggles with it, those are completely different issues and have nothing to do with the definition of the term "professional". 

I can see your point, that designers in third world might not be able to afford the US or European prices for a subscription of Photoshop. But you totally forgot, that Adobe's licences are influenced by local market conditions, too. People in the US and EU pay at least 60% more than in less rich countries. (source i. e. https://community.adobe.com/t5/account-payment-plan/why-creative-cloud-for-europe-is-so-expensive/td-p/4096457?page=1&profile.language=de). So my point is still some kind of valid, even if you get paid less, you also have to spend less for your living in general (cheaper rent, food, licenses...). And if you really need Photoshop (and can't do your job without), the works should pay for its licence. Otherwise you might be an outstanding designer, artist, whatever. Even the best in the world. But if you can't afford buying the tools you need for your job, you are not a professional as per definition.


»A designer's job is to improve the general quality of life. In fact, it's the only reason for our existence.«
Paul Rand (1914-1996)

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2 hours ago, Andy05 said:

So my point is still some kind of valid, even if you get paid less, you also have to spend less for your living in general (cheaper rent, food, licenses...). And if you really need Photoshop (and can't do your job without), the works should pay for its licence. Otherwise you might be an outstanding designer, artist, whatever. Even the best in the world. But if you can't afford buying the tools you need for your job, you are not a professional as per definition.

Nop. Not quite so. I have travelled last year to Europe (I visited England, France and Spain) and clothes were there cheaper than in my country (in Euros or pounds) and food about the same. Cars here cost more than double than in USA (in US dollars). For most thing which are imported, we have to pay twice what they cost in USA (even if they are Chinese). And I know this because I often look at prices in Amazon USA or e-bay and compare. I don’t know how much a subscription to PS (just PS) costs in other countries (nor in yours), but I have just entered Adobe’s web page for us, and it costs for us 814 $ per month (which would be something as 10 U$S dollars a month to which we have to add 35 % of tax for spending money abroad, which means 13,5 dollars per month). I don’t know, you tell me if PS is cheaper for us than for you. But it is not important. I (and many others I suppose) simply don’t share your opinion, that you can’t do the job if not having Adobe’s programs and that if you haven’t Adobe’s programs in particular, you are not a professional. No mater from which country (first or third world).

But I do think that professionals, even if they do not share your same tastes, deserve a bit of respects. Luckily for Serif and many other program developers, we do not all think the same way. And as somebody said before,....”vive la différence!”

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27 minutes ago, AlejandroJ said:

Nop. Not quite so. I have travelled last year to Europe (I visited England, France and Spain) and clothes were there cheaper than in my country (in Euros or pounds) and food about the same. Cars here cost more than double than in USA (in US dollars). For most thing which are imported, we have to pay twice what they cost in USA (even if they are Chinese). And I know this because I often look at prices in Amazon USA or e-bay and compare. I don’t know how much a subscription to PS (just PS) costs in other countries (nor in yours), but I have just entered Adobe’s web page for us, and it costs for us 814 $ per month (which would be something as 10 U$S dollars a month to which we have to add 35 % of tax for spending money abroad, which means 13,5 dollars per month). I don’t know, you tell me if PS is cheaper for us than for you. But it is not important. I (and many others I suppose) simply don’t share your opinion, that you can’t do the job if not having Adobe’s programs and that if you haven’t Adobe’s programs in particular, you are not a professional. No mater from which country (first or third world).

But I do think that professionals, even if they do not share your same tastes, deserve a bit of respects. Luckily for Serif and many other program developers, we do not all think the same way. And as somebody said before,....”vive la différence!”

All prices on the US websites are without the tax, since taxation is different for each of the US countries. You have to add tax in the US as well, depending on which country you account in.
If you do have 35 per cent taxes, you should probably vote for good parties that want to support businesses, and not socialist parties , I guess.
In the EU where I currently reside, a yearly subscription of Adobe CC (full, all apps included) is from 500 €.

BTW, prices of Adobe Creative Suite were very comparable, if not higher, than current CC prices. There were not many updates back then, since it was all about boxed copies on CD's/DVD's.
So if you had Adobe CS 4 and wanted to upgrade to CS 5, you had to pay. It was especially pricey for the Master Collection. However there were also Standard and Designer Collections back then, that included less apps, but were quite cheaper.

If Adobe released a new CS, you had to pay quite a huge sum to get it. Currently, all the updates that are released over your subscription period are included in your subscription price.

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5 hours ago, CLC said:

......If you do have 35 per cent taxes, you should probably vote for good parties that want to support businesses, and not socialist parties , I guess......

Some arguments seem to be reaching kind of an aggressive and disrespectful level.
CLC, we don’t have a socialist government, and if it interests you, I have not voted for the party which is now in power in my country. So I don’t see which is the point that you are trying to make with what you have said.
So,...... you are suggesting that our country and others (if it would be the case), should (ought to) support businesses from a firm (Adobe) of a foreign country? Interesting way or thinking. I bought Affinity when it was half its price plus 35 %, still less than its usual price.

Anyway, some of us are way out of what this forum is for. So this will be my last intervention regarding this topic, no matter what. And I apologize to everybody for allowing myself to be driven by some comments that I read throughout this thread and that shocked me a bit

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3 hours ago, AlejandroJ said:

Some arguments seem to be reaching kind of an aggressive and disrespectful level.
CLC, we don’t have a socialist government, and if it interests you, I have not voted for the party which is now in power in my country. So I don’t see which is the point that you are trying to make with what you have said.
So,...... you are suggesting that our country and others (if it would be the case), should (ought to) support businesses from a firm (Adobe) of a foreign country? Interesting way or thinking. I bought Affinity when it was half its price plus 35 %, still less than its usual price.

Anyway, some of us are way out of what this forum is for. So this will be my last intervention regarding this topic, no matter what. And I apologize to everybody for allowing myself to be driven by some comments that I read throughout this thread and that shocked me a bit

Oh hello, @AlejandroJ - no need to be emotional, let's stay factual.

You're from Argentina, which with nominal GDP of 382,760 USD, ranks as 30th country in the world. I'm living in a country that is with 241,975 USD on 47th place out of 180.

The main difference seems to be inflation, which seems to be around 25 per cent in your country, while Argentina ranks 85th out of 180 countries in the Transparency International’s 2017 Corruption Perceptations index. In my country on the other hand inflation rate is about 3 per cent (and that is quite unusally high value for my country) and the country ranks 44th in the same TI 2017 CPI. Combined taxation in my country is over 47 per cent of income. I believe that in your country, it's less, since there's no payroll tax in Argentina while in my country, wages are way lower, for your information. I my country, there is 15 % income tax + 11 % social security, thus 26 per cent of the income (you have to combine that with other taxes).

VAT is the same in both of our countries, 21 per cent.

Btw, Argentina, same as my country, has agreements on avoidance of double taxation with countries such as Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Great Britain, Germany, Holland, Denmark, Spain, Canada, USA, Finland, France, Chile, Sweden and Russia. That makes me wonder if the prices of imported goods (tariff's) are indeed as high as you mentioned...

If you feel offended by my statement, please, re-read it again, I have emphasized important parts that you might have omitted in your consideration:

Quote

If you do have 35 per cent VAT, you (meaning your country as a whole, not you personally) should probably vote for good parties that want to support businesses, and not socialist parties , I guess.

And to answer:

3 hours ago, AlejandroJ said:

So,...... you are suggesting that our country and others (if it would be the case), should (ought to) support businesses from a firm (Adobe) of a foreign country? Interesting way or thinking. I bought Affinity when it was half its price plus 35 %, still less than its usual price.

Well, we live in a global world with a global market. Why not support and I have to quote "business from Adobe of a foreign country?" since you obviously are supporting Serif that is from the United Kingdom. What is the difference? (That is a rhetorical question, obviously).

Your only merit seems to be the price, in my opinion and not support of local -vs- foreign businesses or quality (and/or features) or the of the products we're discussing in this forum. You are deviating from the topic of this conversation and I'm truly sorry I supported this by replying to you.

Anyway, it was a nice chat with you, take care and Carpe Omnia!

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Hello you two 😀, please read the guidelines for posting on this forum.
In the Briefly section at the top most, rule 3;

Quote

This is a tech forum for like-minded creative individuals using Affinity apps. Please keep conversations on topic - this isn’t the place to talk politics, or last night’s footie score. 

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/guidelines/


This Thread might already be seen as "controversial enough" since there is discussions on how the competition is moving and how it might affect the Serif Team, the Affinity Suite customers and  the development of other software developers along their respective customers.

*Edit ; Just writing as a concerned forum user and customer who wants to keep the current good level of freedom in regards on what we can discuss. ;)

Edited by myclay
added clarity why I am posting forum guidelines.

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On 10/30/2020 at 12:56 PM, Mark Oehlschlager said:

@dannyg9

This reminds me of yet another issue that has driven interest in the Affinity Suite.

On the Mac, after High Sierra 10.13.6, Apple's Mac OS, has gone entirely to a 64 bit architecture. Older 32 bit applications are no longer compatible with the latest OS. This has forced Mac users who've been clinging on to their perpetual license versions of Adobe CS6 to desperately seek out 64 bit alternatives to the subscription only Adobe CC. I gather that you are on Windows, but I assume the same issues are threatening to make older versions of Adobe CS obsolete.

I'm still running Mac OS High Sierra 10.13.6 precisely because I don't want to break my licensed copies of Adobe CS6. In the meantime, I've acquired the Affinity Suite and have become familiar with the tools as part of a larger strategy for surviving the transition to the 64 bit only OS environment.

Ultimately, sooner rather than later, I will be forced to replace my workstations and accept the forced migration to all 64 bit app architecture. At that point I will probably be forced to subscribe to Adobe CC simply because of the demands and pressures of the network effect that enforce the exchange of native Adobe files among clients and colleagues. But I'm happy to have the Affinity Suite and its fixed perpetual license fee as an alternative.

Mark,

I'm a Mac person, through and through. The particular shop I worked at was Windows based. My old laptop is running Yosemite (10.10.5). Anything higher and InDesign CS5 starts acting wonky to the point of collapse. That's okay. I worked right up to CC 2020 and while there were extra features and bells and whistles, it performed about the same as previous versions. Prior to switching to Affinity Publisher, I was using QuarkXpress and believe it or not, 2018 and 2019 were much more efficient than InDesign CC. To paraphrase Yogi Berra, "I was coming to a fork in the road and had to take it." I almost signed up for CC because Adobe Muse would allow me to just about seamlessly enter Web Design without the coding. Thousands were creating sites with Muse and publishing through Adobe. Just before I was ready to hit the purchase button, Adobe announced EOL of Muse and in one fell swoop knocked those thousands of designers out on their butts. No means of transitioning files to another format or program. These designers now faced the task of REBUILDING tens upon thousands of web pages and sites. Adobe promoted a tool and a service and in one stroke of corporate decision making, cut everyone loose and adrift at sea without a preserver and no land in sight. I could not, would not, and will not sign up with nor support such a company.

At the same time, I do not expect Adobe to continue to support CS5 for every Mac OS release, nor do I expect Apple to accommodate 10 year old software in their OS. I keep my old MacBook at Yosemite for the express purpose of accessing and converting my InDesign files to IDML as I need them or as time allows me to "gang" convert them (I'm about 55% done). 

Just because a company insists that subscription is "the way of the future," does not make it so. The readers of the magazines I design and the people that listen to the music for the musicians I design images and packaging for do not care what tool was used to create said graphics. In fact, the publisher of the magazines I design does not know that I went from InDesign, to QuarkXpress, and to Publisher to create the issues. What he cares about and what is revealed in the printing, is the quality, and nothing has been sacrificed or lost in the transition. My workflow for print and digital is 100% Affinity.

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@dannyg9

You mentioned your interest in Adobe Muse before they terminated it. You might be interested in a website building tool for the Mac called Sparkle. It's a code free, visual, website building tool. Produces responsive, fixed-width sites. Here are relevant links:

https://sparkleapp.com

https://sparkleapp.com/docs/

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4 minutes ago, Mark Oehlschlager said:

@dannyg9

You mentioned your interest in Adobe Muse before they terminated it. You might be interested in a website building tool for the Mac called Sparkle. It's a code free, visual, website building tool. Produces responsive, fixed-width sites. Here are relevant links:

https://sparkleapp.com

https://sparkleapp.com/docs/

or this one which is far more powerful than Sparkle

https://www.wysiwygwebbuilder.com/

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42 minutes ago, Sam Neil said:

or this one which is far more powerful than Sparkle

I recommend Everweb https://www.everwebapp.com


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Affinity Designer, Photo and Publisher 1.8.6 + Latest Betas when available

Currently working on bits and bobs
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2 hours ago, Mark Oehlschlager said:

@dannyg9

You mentioned your interest in Adobe Muse before they terminated it. You might be interested in a website building tool for the Mac called Sparkle. It's a code free, visual, website building tool. Produces responsive, fixed-width sites. Here are relevant links:

https://sparkleapp.com

https://sparkleapp.com/docs/

Mark,

Funny you should mention. . . . In the wake of that Muse explosion I poked around and I wound up with. . . SPARKLE! This past spring I created my first site with it (www.rickybyrd.com) and I'm in the process of creating my own site using Sparkle. So far so good.

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