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When I open a photo in AP which I've retrieved from another app (eg Irfanview, MS Photo) it seems to have a colour caste. Why the difference and is the AP rendition the more correct?

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White is white or yellow?

 

 


Affinity Store: Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 1.8.5.703.
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Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080.
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200.

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20 hours ago, Mike 1940 said:

When I open a photo in AP which I've retrieved from another app (eg Irfanview, MS Photo) it seems to have a colour caste. Why the difference and is the AP rendition the more correct?

Just a litte tip here that will help you,  apart from reading what Psenda posted I would take a small portion of your image, maybe a third of it (this is to save ink), the part perhaps with the most colour, and print it out.  Do not look at your screen, go to a window with natural light, does the photo look good to you? now compare that with the screen.  This is a good place to start before we go any further.


Microsoft - Like entering your home and opening the stainless steel kitchen door, with a Popup: 'Do you really want to open this door'? Then looking for the dishwasher and finding it stored in the living room where you have to download a water supply from the app store, then you have to buy microsoft compliant soap, remove the carpet only to be told that it is glued to the floor.. Don't forget to make multiple copies of your front door key and post them to all who demand access to all the doors inside your home including the windows and outside shed.

Apple - Like entering your home and opening the oak framed Kitchen door and finding the dishwasher right in front you ready to be switched on, soap supplied, and water that comes through a water softener.  Ah the front door key is yours and it only needs to open the front door.

 

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You can also identify a patch of tone in your image that you know is neutral, and has been forced to be rendered neutral in the image, and measure the RGB or Lab values of the patch with the Sampler tool in AP's Info Panel to see if the patch is, indeed, neutral (ie, R=G=B or a=0, b=0).  This way you will know that the patch is neutral and that it is that patch on your display in your particular application that does not APPEAR to be neutral.  Accounting for differences in the appearance of an image and its tones and colors is a tricky thing to nail down because your perception of its appearance can be influenced by a lot of different factors, including color management, the way you and your brain perceive color, the tone and color of the workspace area surrounding the image on your display, the lighting in the room where your computer is set up, etc.

Kirk

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Thanks to Pesenda, Chris26 and Kirkt. I have found that the image as in MS Photo prints out much the same as the same image in AP even though the on screen image in AP has a distinct yellow caste. By experimenting I find I cannot make a white fill layer, it is yellow. I thought it might be the New Document set up that is causing the problem but I am using the profile suggested in Leigh's FAQ.I don't think altering the display settings would solve it as that would alter the image in both apps.

Thanks anyway but I would like to know why I can't make a white fill layer.

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2 hours ago, Mike 1940 said:

.I don't think altering the display settings would solve it as that would alter the image in both apps.

No, because only Affinity applications use this ICC profile for canvas displaying.

Try search many forum post for this problem.

https://www.google.com/search?q=White+is+yellow+site%3Aforum.affinity.serif.com


Affinity Store: Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 1.8.5.703.
Windows 10 Pro, Version 20H2, Build 19042.610.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080.
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200.

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On 10/23/2020 at 7:20 PM, Mike 1940 said:

When I open a photo in AP which I've retrieved from another app (eg Irfanview, MS Photo) it seems to have a colour caste. Why the difference and is the AP rendition the more correct?

Probably root cause: you have a monitor profile installed in Windows. The profiles is used by programs to display images - and in very good programs the entire program is rendered using this monitor profile. I made a profile like this with a device for it and results are greats. Sometimes these profiles are installed by the manufacturer of your PC... and I have yet to see a good result. In the last case you will experience Poltergeist because...

  • Some programs use it.
  • Some programs don't!

And now the horror story:

  • Affinity Photo etc. does.
  • MS Photo does not.
  • Windows itself does not, generally

And why would Microsoft not use it for their photo apps? I have no idea. It is ludicrous. Anyway, if this is the case, and if the monitor profile is a good and accurate, in your case Affinity shows the image correctly. 

Software that does use the monitor profile out of the box - try opening the file in one of those - it should look identical to how Affinity displays it:

  • Google Chrome browser
  • Microsoft Edge browser (the new one base on Chromium/Chrome)
  • Opera browser

In Irfanview you can in preferences configure Irfanview to use the same monitor profile. You should never use MS Photo whatever. 

This was a helpful link, I believe:

 


I gave up using Designer - a "professional" vector drawing program without advanced or semi-advanced vector features. Customers waiting for five years in vain is more than any company can ask for. Maybe if Affinity Designer 2.0 gets real and advanced vector features I can use it. Until then... I am a customer, a potential upgrader and an active observer with an opinion.

Further... give up and please hire a professional, educated UX (user experience designer), Serif. Professional software companies used them for decades now. You must too.

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1 hour ago, Jowday said:
  • Google Chrome browser
  • Microsoft Edge browser (the new one base on Chromium/Chrome)
  • Opera browser

As far as I know, Opera is also built on the Chromium rendering engine. Therefore, all these browsers render correctly - using an ICC monitor profile.


Affinity Store: Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 1.8.5.703.
Windows 10 Pro, Version 20H2, Build 19042.610.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080.
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200.

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On 10/25/2020 at 12:43 AM, Pšenda said:

As far as I know, Opera is also built on the Chromium rendering engine. Therefore, all these browsers render correctly - using an ICC monitor profile.

Arh... kinda. They are indeed all based on Chromium content rendering engine. Monitor profile support is another story. Monitor profile support of images was not satisfactory for years, didn't work well several times. It worked perfectly in Opera the last 3-4 years though, then Microsoft Edge was released recently supporting it fully and behold... Google Chrome did too some months later. The monitor support from Chromium and Google only supported the correct display of images on a page. Not the entire browser and browser window. Opera did though and then the rest of them followed suit later with complete support.

I know because I have a wide gamut monitor - I need total monitor profile support. Not just of images - but of anything - ANYTHING - in the browser window. Including the browser itself. I run fx Gravit Designer in a browser and it looked terrible in anything else than Opera for years. Then Microsoft Edge based on Chromium was released this year and Gravit was fully colour managed in Edge as well. And as by magic Google Chrome suddenly fully supported my profile as well some months later.

So my gut feeling is that someone - possibly Microsoft, maybe even Opera 🙂 - contributed to complete monitor profile support recently. But correct rendering of images possibly worked better up till now. So it is not just a blessing inherited from the Chromium project that all browsers benefit from.

I followed Google Chrome from the first public release - I had wide gamut monitor for just as long I guess. And now in 2020 my monitor profile is finally supported. It is shitty design and an ignorant approach from Google and Microsoft like this that makes me wonder why I did not use OS X instead that handles monitor profiles much better and did for long. But that is another long story.


I gave up using Designer - a "professional" vector drawing program without advanced or semi-advanced vector features. Customers waiting for five years in vain is more than any company can ask for. Maybe if Affinity Designer 2.0 gets real and advanced vector features I can use it. Until then... I am a customer, a potential upgrader and an active observer with an opinion.

Further... give up and please hire a professional, educated UX (user experience designer), Serif. Professional software companies used them for decades now. You must too.

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Hi Pesenda and Jowday, thanks for your further help. It's really appreciated.

In my case I have solved the problem by following the advice in this article https://www.lightroomqueen.com/how-do-i-change-my-monitor-profile-to-check-whether-its-corrupted/ which as you can see is written for Lightroom but seems to work ok for AP. Basically for Windows 10 it involves going into Colour Management and changing the default Profile to sRGB IE 61966-2.1.

I'm using a Samsung Syncmaster T240 monitor.

Thanks again

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3 hours ago, Mike 1940 said:

Basically for Windows 10 it involves going into Colour Management and changing the default Profile to sRGB IE 61966-2.1.

Yes, we recommend this from the first post.


Affinity Store: Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 1.8.5.703.
Windows 10 Pro, Version 20H2, Build 19042.610.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080.
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200.

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8 hours ago, Mike 1940 said:

Hi Pesenda and Jowday, thanks for your further help. It's really appreciated.

In my case I have solved the problem by following the advice in this article https://www.lightroomqueen.com/how-do-i-change-my-monitor-profile-to-check-whether-its-corrupted/ which as you can see is written for Lightroom but seems to work ok for AP. Basically for Windows 10 it involves going into Colour Management and changing the default Profile to sRGB IE 61966-2.1.

I'm using a Samsung Syncmaster T240 monitor.

Thanks again

Yep, but be advised it is a roll back maneuver. With that profile you will see the colours your monitor is showing out of the box. That is rarely what creatives want - those colours are either not calibrated for anything, or else they are calibrated by the manufacturer for movies (punchy) or office work (neutral more cold colors). Further colors drift over time as the monitor gets older. Creatives therefore calibrate their monitor now and then to generate a monitor colour profile that results in colors more close to... lets call it an agreed target. I never can present my work or photos on office computers. Colors are always off - especially greens. If they were calibrated they would show the image closer to what I saw on my monitor. Or even very close.

That being said you are probably fine with your setup now. Don't do anything if you don't experience issues. 🙂

In my case with a wide gamut monitor the sRGB profile would be wrong. 

 


I gave up using Designer - a "professional" vector drawing program without advanced or semi-advanced vector features. Customers waiting for five years in vain is more than any company can ask for. Maybe if Affinity Designer 2.0 gets real and advanced vector features I can use it. Until then... I am a customer, a potential upgrader and an active observer with an opinion.

Further... give up and please hire a professional, educated UX (user experience designer), Serif. Professional software companies used them for decades now. You must too.

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