Jump to content
benwiggy

Passthrough PDF still can't display text reliably

Recommended Posts

28 minutes ago, benwiggy said:

It still looks awful when Placed as a Passthrough PDF.

As far as I’m aware, passthrough in beta versions of Publisher only affects PDF output: embedded fonts are still not interpreted as they would need to be for correct display within the app. Have you read something that suggests this should have changed?


Alfred online2long.gif
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher for Windows • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.8.6 • Designer for iPad 1.8.6 • iPadOS 14.2 (iPad Air 2)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

17 minutes ago, Alfred said:

. Have you read something that suggests this should have changed?

Everything I know tells me this should be changed.  There's not much point testing any further if it can't just plonk a PDF on a page properly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi benwiggy,
Currently placing the PDF as Passthrough still interprets the PDF for display on canvas, meaning if the fonts are not available on the system it will NOT look as the original. Affinity apps still don't support embedded fonts. What that option does is ensuring that the original PDF file will be used on export instead of the interpreted version that's displayed on canvas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, MEB said:

Hi benwiggy,
Currently placing the PDF as Passthrough still interprets the PDF for display on canvas, meaning if the fonts are not available on the system it will NOT look as the original. Affinity apps still don't support embedded fonts. 

Dear MEB

I would be very grateful if you could explain to me why Affinity has made this curious choice about PDFs, and what benefits it brings over the conventional methods used by every other application. It is a cause of huge frustration.  I cannot raster a PDF into a bitmap accurately; I cannot open a PDF for editing; I cannot get an accurate representation as a page object. And yet EPS files work perfectly.

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi benwiggy,
It's not exactly a choice/there's no benefits other than ensuring the original/untouched PDF file is used on export. It's a first step towards a full/proper implementation which is not possible until we add support for embedded fonts. Only then we can provide an option to rasterise PDF's, import/edit them using PDF's embedded fonts, display them on the canvas without the fonts being installed etc. We are working towards this - it's not done yet because font embedding support is a bit tricky/takes some time to implement properly. Meanwhile those that don't need an accurate representation of the PDF on canvas can already use the pass through option to use the original PDF on export. Hope this clears things a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, benwiggy said:

Please just treat PDFs like you already do for EPS.

EPS does not support TrueType or newer font standards, so something that was exported as EPS will be limited to bitmap or PostScript fonts.  This is a completely different world than that of PDF where you could have much more complex font information to interpret and potentially multiple pages.

I don't believe it would be practical to somehow pretend that a PDF file is a more advanced version of EPS - they are actually quite different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, fde101 said:

EPS does not support TrueType or newer font standards,

Here's an EPS file with embedded subset TrueType and OpenType fonts.   Fonts.eps

My point is: Affinity imports an EPS file as a placed 'image', just like normal apps do with PDF. I can render a bitmap of one. I can import one for editing, albeit that Affinity outlines everything. But that would be an improvement for PDFs over the current 'first step' in some strange and unusual implementation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As an end user working in the professional pre-press environment our only concern is that AP should be able to interpret embedded fonts and has a reliable pdf passthrough. The technical issues as to why this is not working are of no importance. Workarounds, third party software etc. are just a distraction. Serif need to fix this problem before lasting damage is done to their reputation as a serious developer of professional design software (Description from their website ‘The Next Level of Professional Publishing’)

This dialogue has been ongoing for over two years, so they are well aware of the importance of this issue. One can only conclude, that at present, they either do not have the inclination or the ability to resolve this.

As a consequence I have contacted the MD of serif directly to say how important I (and many others) feel this problem is and that it prevents the use of AP as an alternative to indesign. I hope that he hears our collective plea and is able ensure the team dedicate the required time, and necessary expertise, so that this can be resolved. (As yet no response)

I believe the development team at Serif are doing their upmost to create a viable alternative to adobe and I am sure we all wish them to succeed in this endeavour. All we ask is that they listen to the professionals trying to use their apps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/18/2020 at 7:32 AM, Grosvenor Imaging said:

One can only conclude, that at present, they either do not have the inclination or the ability to resolve this.

This appears to be just a copy/paste repost from last month, except this time your conclusion has less weight. I don’t argue that this is a not a significant issue (because it is), but I do quite disagree that Serif is lacking in either the ability or inclination to fix it, because we are here commenting on the beta where they are testing out the first step at a solution. It is still rough, but they are not done with it yet, and we also know font pass-through is being worked on for a later stage. 
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, garrettm30 said:

 the beta where they are testing out the first step at a solution.

The question remains, why, at version 1.9, several years into the planning of the project, is this 'the first step'?

Why such an arse-about-face implementation, of turning every object inside a PDF into an Affinity data type (unfaithfully when it comes to text), when solutions widely exist for PDF as images, editable objects and rasterized bitmaps?

It is only because the implementation of the rest of the suite is of such high standard and capability that this PDF blindness is all the more bizarre and inexplicable.

There really ought to be an FAQ setting out the company's view on this, why they've done what they've done, and why it not working now is worth waiting for something later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, benwiggy said:

There really ought to be an FAQ setting out the company's view on this, why they've done what they've done, and why it not working now is worth waiting for something later.

While that is an interesting idea and one I would be greatly interested in, it would also open up a can of worms regarding people asking further questions in response to Affinity's responses which would take them away from fixing and/or implementing new features. For the sake of the developers, even though I would love to know the thinking behind some of their decisions, I don't think it would be worthwhile. That being said PDF passthrough would have been the first thing on my list to implement but thats by the by.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please note the Annual Company Closure section in the Terms of Use. These are the Terms of Use you will be asked to agree to if you join the forum. | Privacy Policy | Guidelines | We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.