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djjss

Why don't add the change log to front screen on every update?

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Hello

I don't know if I'm asking in the right place, but here we go.. I would like that when you update any affinity version, the change log appear in the front screen, so, we don't have to go trough the web site and look for the change log in the forum, so, we can have access to it from the software.

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Personally, I would find it annoying if the change log automatically appeared the first time the updated version was launched. So perhaps 'view change log' could be implemented as an explicit option on the Welcome screen, or something like that?


Affinity Photo 1.8.4, Affinity Designer 1.8.4, Affinity Publisher 1.8.4;  2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 40GB RAM; macOS 10.15.6
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2 hours ago, R C-R said:

or something like that?

Menu Help, under Welcome screen. 


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12 hours ago, djjss said:

so, we don't have to go trough the web site and look for the change log in the forum

Isn't it simply a 1-click procedure to see the change log?

Any new update sticks to the top of the News & Info forum ( https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/forum/4-news-and-information/  ). The according topic lists the changes at its top, no need to search or scroll for it. An additional email informs with a list of updates & direct 1-click links for update variants (app/platform).

If you don't get the email yet you can subscribe it here:
https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/notifications/&do=follow&follow_app=forums&follow_area=topic&follow_id=71071


macOS 10.14.6, Macbook Pro Retina 15" + Eizo 24", Affinity in Separated Mode (documents merged)

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45 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Isn't it simply a 1-click procedure to see the change log?

It is if a browser window is open & it is displaying the News & Info forum, but I think @djjss is asking for a 1-click method to do that if someone is not currently in that forum & may not even have a browser running at that time.


Affinity Photo 1.8.4, Affinity Designer 1.8.4, Affinity Publisher 1.8.4;  2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 40GB RAM; macOS 10.15.6
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2 hours ago, R C-R said:

I think @djjss is asking for a 1-click method to do that if someone is not currently in that forum & may not even have a browser running at that time.

Then isn't it a simple 3-click procedure to display the change log?

First click: Help > "Support..."

344017345_Bildschirmfoto2020-09-13um18_43_35.jpg.5a1205654f5b8e7efd2f8966a21122c0.jpg


Second Click: "News and Information"

319732294_Bildschirmfoto2020-09-13um18_44_11.jpg.ba0b001d2ec52d578cc4ce26b72da932.jpg


Third click: the desired app & platform from the link list:

178114079_Bildschirmfoto2020-09-13um18_51_20.thumb.jpg.8a7490acdc057a4185fa62f6a736163c.jpg


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I don't remember the last update info window but if this is the current style then it seems to need improvement anyway: What might mean "OK" here? – Actually I would expect in this window a link to the change log.

DesignerUpdateDialog.PNG.738f8acd56b890c09baa4c9681923c37.PNG


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I don’t really see the usefulness of having changelog information within the applications themselves.
How often would any user want to visit this information within the applications?
Even if someone wanted to do it, would anyone need to do this more than once per update?
If not, then a quick one-stop trip to the website, as mentioned above, will probably be enough for most people.
(Also, adding the changelog information into an application means that the application build is dependant on the changelog within it.)

I have no problem with someone requesting this but I can’t see how it would be useful to the vast majority of users. (That said, I could be wrong, and am willing to accept a very good explanation otherwise.)

Note: I agree with tomaso that the “OK” button is badly named on the update dialog. Maybe “Ignore for now” would be better.

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29 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Also, adding the changelog information into an application means that the application build is dependant on the changelog within it.

Of course, the application would only display the contents of the external txt/html file, so its would have no effect to code (build). Just like Help.


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Windows 10 Pro, Version 2004, Build 19041.508.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080.
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20 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

Of course, the application would only display the contents of the external txt/html file, so its would have no effect to code (build). Just like Help.

Absolutely, but the changelog contained in the applications – no matter what the format – would need to be properly updated and checked before the software was packaged up for distribution.
In an ideal world - with a perfect development process – this shouldn’t be a problem, but if something was omitted or incorrect at the time of packaging – maybe the person whose job it is to update the list wasn’t at work that day, or whatever other reason – then it’s omitted or incorrect for the lifetime of that package. On the other hand, if the changelog in on the website then it’s easily corrected and can have extra information added if necessary.
Once it’s in the package it’s ‘set in stone’.

Note: We have a similar problem with the Help files where mistakes and/or omissions have to remain until the next update (or later).

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13 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Absolutely, but the changelog contained in the applications – no matter what the format – would need to be properly updated and checked before the software was packaged up for distribution.
In an ideal world - with a perfect development process – this shouldn’t be a problem, but if something was omitted or incorrect at the time of packaging – maybe the person whose job it is to update the list wasn’t at work that day, or whatever other reason – then it’s omitted or incorrect for the lifetime of that package. On the other hand, if the changelog in on the website then it’s easily corrected and can have extra information added if necessary.
Once it’s in the package it’s ‘set in stone’.

Note: We have a similar problem with the Help files where mistakes and/or omissions have to remain until the next update (or later).

What is the problem updating this file based on information from the web? What is the problem of displaying directly an external file downloaded from the web, where it will of course be continuously updated and supplemented?


Affinity Store: Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 1.8.5.703.
Windows 10 Pro, Version 2004, Build 19041.508.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080.
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200.

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And now you are suggesting adding some kind of Web Client/Browser functionality, with all the complexity that will bring (over three different operating systems), just to allow a few users – only one that I know of – to save a few mouse clicks every few months or so. As I said above, I consider this to be unnecessary.

I have no problem with other people discussing this further – some really great ideas may come from it – but I don’t have the time nor inclination to continue discussing the possible implementation details of seldom-needed functionality that will serve very little purpose to the wider community. I’ll just get on with something else instead.

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As long we need a bunch of single steps for an app update this 1–3 additional clicks to the change log can't harm that much. So I actually would prefer for the update info window not to have an update edit: download button but a link to the change log (+ download button there) where I can decide to update after reading the change log.

The next improvement in my eyes should be to get rid of the various steps a user needs to do for an app update (serif store version):
1. download
2. unzip
3. move to apps folder
4. confirm replace (or rename or delete existing app first)
5. launch app + reboot computer (to clean the update process –> avoid UI glitches after app update)
6. delete zip


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9 hours ago, thomaso said:

So I actually would prefer for the update info window not to have an update button but a link to the change log (+ download button there) where I can decide to update after reading the change log.

Untypical usage, usual one first get's an indication that there is an update at all and the chance to dynamically update the app. Afterwards, after updating, some apps do tell by opening a local browser instance and loading the HTML release info page (or some by the app supplied text file) which things have been addressed by that update. No app I'm aware of and commonly use tells before "hey there is an update and if you update you will benefit from those fixes and enhancements here, so what do you wait for, just click the update button right now!". Instead the corresponding software associated sites and blogs tell in more detail that there are new versions available and what those versions do address (their release notes).


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10 hours ago, GarryP said:

And now you are suggesting adding some kind of Web Client/Browser functionality, with all the complexity that will bring

Sorry, but this is completely basic and one of the simplest things, because it uses the pre-prepared components included in every OS.


Affinity Store: Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 1.8.5.703.
Windows 10 Pro, Version 2004, Build 19041.508.
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Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080.
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10 minutes ago, v_kyr said:
9 hours ago, thomaso said:

So I actually would prefer for the update info window not to have an update button but a link to the change log (+ download button there) where I can decide to update after reading the change log.

Untypical usage, usual one first get's an indication that there is an update at all and the chance to dynamically update the app.

Sorry, this "not to have an update button" was a typo, I meant to say download button.
I would not mind, even appreciate, a real update button, instead of the 6-step installing procedure which currently the download button requires. (see same post above)

16 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

No app I'm aware of and commonly use tells before "hey there is an update and if you update you will benefit from those fixes and enhancements here, so what do you wait for, just click the update button right now!".

That's also not my idea or imagination. As said before I'd appreciate a link to the change log in the update info window. That method is rather usual then seldom in my experience. Often this window shows...
1. update version info
2. link to more info (> change log)
3. install button

Here a few samples. Even though not all have an install button and one hasn't even a download button they all have a link for more info:

3.jpg.079a139fc64e5585f270b48c1f350a15.jpg

1920763339_gigapixelupdateinfo.jpg.f464755375bdbed07cafae830cfe4919.jpg

1173158957_tinkertoolupdateinfo.jpg.4d20f1706d0d372b724cd45743d97bbd.jpg

340921601_appstoreupdateinfos.thumb.jpg.ebd61d566b9276b77f977dbfee6ac81a.jpg

hero-ipados136.png.3b94db98df48129f938ec78d8d0b277f.png


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Technically could be done either way, though store versions like the MAS one, would probably need an Apple rules conform handling scheme here.


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22 hours ago, GarryP said:

And now you are suggesting adding some kind of Web Client/Browser functionality, with all the complexity that will bring (over three different operating systems)...

That is already built into the Welcome screen via the various "Stay Connected" & the "View Tutorials" buttons. So I think all a 'view change log' button on the Welcome screen would need is to open a link to the web page for the most recent change log. (It is just a variation on the "Support Forums" button already on that screen.)


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18 minutes ago, R C-R said:

So I think all a 'view change log' button on the Welcome screen (...)

In my understanding of the interest in the change log would be to make a decision whether I want to update or not. A link in the Welcome screen would/should guide to the currently installed version, not to any not installed one. Therefore a link to the change log of a not-installed update might be more useful in the Update Info window and/or the resulting window caused by the menu command "Check for Updates".


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7 minutes ago, thomaso said:

In my understanding of the interest in the change log would be to make a decision whether I want to update or not. A link in the Welcome screen would/should guide to the currently installed version, not to any not installed one.

 If the purpose is to decide whether or not to update the app then why should the link take anyone to the currently installed version?


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1 minute ago, R C-R said:

 If the purpose is to decide whether or not to update the app then why should the link take anyone to the currently installed version?

Simply to avoid confusion. I just would not expect to get presented a change log about a future, not installed version from the current Welcome screen. (unless it says explicitly something like "if you would update then ...")


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12 hours ago, thomaso said:

Here a few samples. Even though not all have an install button and one hasn't even a download button they all have a link for more info:

Next example is application update in Android:

IMG_20200915_132120.thumb.jpg.3703b55213e600cf8b5861046efdba4a.jpg

 

Providing this information directly in applications, not the need to visit and log in to a some forum, is a standard feature of applications.


Affinity Store: Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 1.8.5.703.
Windows 10 Pro, Version 2004, Build 19041.508.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080.
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080.
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1 hour ago, Pšenda said:

Providing this information directly in applications, not the need to visit and log in to a some forum, is a standard feature of applications.

Consider that the change log of an Affinity app might be a lot longer than the 'charming' marketing text of your Android screenshot.
I'd prefer to read that amount of text in a browser window or separate text file than as part of a welcome screen or dialog window of limited size:

194532046_changelogsampleAPub184.thumb.jpg.4d6fa94bf9309e3b1c38e5a92d50cc3a.jpg


macOS 10.14.6, Macbook Pro Retina 15" + Eizo 24", Affinity in Separated Mode (documents merged)

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22 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Consider that the change log of an Affinity app might be a lot longer than the 'charming' marketing text of your Android screenshot.
I'd prefer to read that amount of text in a browser window or separate text file than as part of a welcome screen or dialog window of limited size:

Of course, as I wrote above, the application itself must offer a link to a list of changes. Nowhere do I suggest their display as part of the Welcome screen.


Affinity Store: Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 1.8.5.703.
Windows 10 Pro, Version 2004, Build 19041.508.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080.
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200.

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