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thecompu

These two TIFFs are different somehow (also rotation question)

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Considering what you found in Photoshop or any of the other things we’ve worked on, do you think is potentially something that Serif needs to look at?

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8 hours ago, thecompu said:

Considering what you found in Photoshop or any of the other things we’ve worked on, do you think is potentially something that Serif needs to look at?

The feature does behave a bit vaguely and there does not seem to be a clear way to determine whether an opened TIFF file is layered or flattened, and this can be problematic. [EDIT: As can be seen when opening the two TIFF files that you provided: they both have transparent background defined but the .0000 TIFF is flattened and .0002 TIFF layered.]

It seems that there are at least three methods of exporting an image as a flattened TIFF: a) Adding a full-width full-height opaque pixel layer in the image (even if the image itself has a transparent background defined) b) Turning off transparent background by using the setting on the Document menu c) Defining a matte color using an export setting.

However it is not clear how an image can be forced to stay layered (non-flattened). At least it needs to have transparent background, and it cannot have matte defined, but as mentioned, the fact that an image just has multiple layers does not guarantee that an exported TIFF image is saved with TIFF layers and unflattened because a uniform opaque layer the width and height of which match the image width and height seems to cause the image to automatically become flattened (saving with "Affinity layers" only works with Affinity apps so layers saved this way do not show as layers in Photoshop).

UPDATE: In Photoshop there is a specific layer command "Flatten Image" that guarantees that an image is flattened but e.g. using the "Rasterize" layer command of Photo [EDIT: or even the explicit Document > Flatten] does not do the same. In Photoshop it is also visually clear whether an image is layered or flattened:

ps_layered.jpg.af6307ef6992891b59fe3ebe2df96f50.jpg ps_flattened.jpg.a361ed97a491d315295c4513d91975f7.jpg

In Photo an image can have "Background" as a layer name and it can have lock applied, but the image is still unflattened (as there basically is no such status as "flattened background" for an image in Photo).

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1 hour ago, Lagarto said:

In Photoshop there is a specific layer command "Flatten Image" that guarantees that an image is flattened but e.g. using the "Rasterize" layer command of Photo does not do the same

There is Flatten Image also in AP... 

I tried to compare images both in PS and AP and could not find any difference in file structure (layers/channels).

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1 hour ago, Fixx said:

There is Flatten Image also in AP...

There is, but it does not make the image flattened in the sense the word is used in Photoshop. If you open the OP's 0002.tif image, it has a transparency at the bottom of the image, and this causes the image to be exported as a layered image, even if you have applied "Rasterize" or "Flatten" commands on it. It will be "truly" flattened (an image without layers) only if the transparent background is removed, or an opaque layer size of the image is added, or if matte background is added.

> I tried to compare images both in PS and AP and could not find any difference in file structure (layers/channels)

difference.jpg.8a0550f1506fd8351f040a67c148dcf7.jpg

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Oh true, original has it. I managed to lose transparency in Crop/Straighten operation. Original file shows transparency in a corner, it is probably a leftover from straighten operation.

Seems flatten image does not remove transparency, it just combines layers. Additional Transparent Background off removes all layerishness.

 

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Thanks, all! I see what you mean by the lower left. I assumed that would be no issue. 
 

I do have more PS experience but it’s from years ago. I don’t know how much has changed in relation to layers. I do recall using Flatten Image a lot. I’m really curious about simply cropping 0002 to see what happens. That would be a very simple solution to all of this. 
 

I haven’t been as precise on these images obviously. 
 

One thing I am curious about is how I’ve not had any issues with other images I’ve _saved_ as opposed to exported. Having said that, I’ve done a lot more rotating and cropping and scanning items 2-up which necessitated more rotating and cropping and exporting. 
 

I have wondered if saving or exporting do two different things with regard to transparency layers. 
 

Thanks all!!!

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14 hours ago, h_d said:

And no I don't understand why GC says it's RGB... Wonder what IA thinks?

I have found that Affinity Photo will often convert my scanned images (tiffs) to RGB, even though I scan them as greyscale or even black and white. It is something to do with applying an automatic profile.

Have I missed anyone mentioning this? You can straighten a document by:

  1. Select the Crop tool.
  2. On the Context Toolbar, select Straighten.
  3. Click on the beginning of a line that should be horizontal.
  4. Click on the end of the horizontal line.
  5. Complete any  remaining crop actions.

John


Windows 10, Affinity Photo 1.8,5 Designer 1.8.5 and Publisher 1.8.5 (mainly Photo), now ex-Adobe CC

CPU: AMD A6-3670. RAM: 16 GB DDR3 @ 666MHz, Graphics: 2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 630

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14 hours ago, h_d said:

And no I don't understand why GC says it's RGB... Wonder what IA thinks?

I have found that Affinity Photo will often convert my scanned images (tiffs) to RGB, even though I scan them as greyscale or even black and white. It is something to do with applying an automatic profile.

 

Have I missed anyone mentioning this? You can straighten a document by:

  1. Select the Crop tool.
  2. On the Context Toolbar, select Straighten.
  3. Click on the beginning of a line that should be horizontal.
  4. Click on the end of the horizontal line.
  5. Complete any  remaining crop actions.

John


Windows 10, Affinity Photo 1.8,5 Designer 1.8.5 and Publisher 1.8.5 (mainly Photo), now ex-Adobe CC

CPU: AMD A6-3670. RAM: 16 GB DDR3 @ 666MHz, Graphics: 2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 630

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14 hours ago, h_d said:

And no I don't understand why GC says it's RGB... Wonder what IA thinks?

I have found that Affinity Photo will often convert my scanned images (tiffs) to RGB, even though I scan them as greyscale or even black and white. It is something to do with applying an automatic profile.

 

Have I missed anyone mentioning this? You can straighten a document by:

  1. Select the Crop tool.
  2. On the Context Toolbar, select Straighten.
  3. Click on the beginning of a line that should be horizontal.
  4. Click on the end of the horizontal line.
  5. Complete any  remaining crop actions.

John


Windows 10, Affinity Photo 1.8,5 Designer 1.8.5 and Publisher 1.8.5 (mainly Photo), now ex-Adobe CC

CPU: AMD A6-3670. RAM: 16 GB DDR3 @ 666MHz, Graphics: 2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 630

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1 hour ago, John Rostron said:

I have found that Affinity Photo will often convert my scanned images (tiffs) to RGB, even though I scan them as greyscale or even black and white. It is something to do with applying an automatic profile.

I worked in commercial printing for about a decade. This is the kind of thing that could be a big problem, but for me I don't really care. 🙂

However, I notice that when I open a file that was scanned grayscale, AP applies a grayscale profile. I may be scanning some later and I can check it out and report back.

Quote

Have I missed anyone mentioning this? You can straighten a document by:

  1. Select the Crop tool.
  2. On the Context Toolbar, select Straighten.
  3. Click on the beginning of a line that should be horizontal.
  4. Click on the end of the horizontal line.
  5. Complete any  remaining crop actions.

No, you didn't miss it; I didn't know it existed! I'll try it.

I think the first thing I'm going to try is to just remove that sliver of transparency and see what IA does with that. [EDIT: It didn't work. 😞]

It's strange that I've not had this issue before in that I have scanned many things grayscale. The difference here, though, is I've been rotating and cropping. So... maybe I need to export with white matte every time I do that? I don't care; I just want to do what's going to work! 🙂

Is there some kind of fundamental difference between rotate and crop vs. transform and crop as it pertains to layers?

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8 minutes ago, thecompu said:

No, you didn't miss it; I didn't know it existed! I'll try it.

I think the first thing I'm going to try is to just remove that sliver of transparency and see what IA does with that.

Straighten tool in Crop tool is really useful. It does not though offer automatic crop to remove transparent corners, and there is no Trim command either like in PS. Manual cropping it is.

I think you need to set Document > Transparent Background to off. You should be able to just save over the original document as long as you have not inserted any non-destructive elements/layers.

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12 minutes ago, Fixx said:

Straighten tool in Crop tool is really useful. It does not though offer automatic crop to remove transparent corners, and there is no Trim command either like in PS. Manual cropping it is.

I think you need to set Document > Transparent Background to off. You should be able to just save over the original document as long as you have not inserted any non-destructive elements/layers.

Okay, I'll try that straighten.

I am creating one with transparent background off. I'll see what that does. Uploading to IA now. Takes a little but to go through derive which creates the previews.

[EDIT: Yes, that worked. That's the easiest option by far.]

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