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These two TIFFs are different somehow (also rotation question)


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Affinity Photo 1.8.573 (The attached samples were processed in 1.84.)

Windows 10

I've been scanning and uploading data to the Internet Archive without fail until very recently. Basically some scans don't render properly there. I know someone there and they are perplexed. I don't necessarily think something is wrong with Affinity Photo or IA, but rather my processing of the files.

Typically what I do is:

  1. Open the file
  2. Use the crop tool to rotate and crop the file.
  3. Save.

Sometimes, if I have two-up, I'll do this twice. Usually if I do this, I export out to TIFF.

I've attached two. 0002 doesn't render on IA. 0000 does. I imagine the sizes are different but IA can handle that.

Aside from sizes, can anyone see something else that's different such as attaching an ICC profile or maybe a layer or something. I know it's just a TIFF and I'm just going to rescan, but I'd like to know if there's something I can do differently.

 

Also: I'd like to know... I am scanning material that often comes out rotated on the scanner and I'd like to rotate them. I usually use the crop tool to do that:

  1. Turn on crop.
  2. Rotate with mouse.
  3. Enter to apply the rotate.
  4. Turn on crop.
  5. Crop image.

Is there a better way or is that way just as good as any?

 

Thanks for any help!!

 

Cheers,

Mike W

 

Popular_Song_Classics_0000.tif Popular_Song_Classics_0002.tif

Edited by thecompu
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Hi @thecompu and welcome!

29 minutes ago, thecompu said:

Is there a better way or is that way just as good as any?

Document menu - Rotate 90º in your chosen direction:

550157529_Screenshot2020-09-11at22_50_58.png.0f055f94df1f65cae6e87d663898dc84.png

Is quicker, especially if you modify the shortcut to something that doesn't wrench your fingers out of their sockets :51_scream:

Using ExifTool I can see a couple of differences between your .tiff files

Samples per pixel in 0000 is 1, in 0002 it's 2

Bits per sample in 0000 is 16, in 0002 it's 16 16

There's also an Extra Samples tag in 0002 which reads "Associated Alpha" and isn't present in 0000

There may be other differences, but I'm not clever enough to tell you what they mean, or whether they would stop a file rendering properly on the Internet Archive. It may be that 0002 has an alpha channel that isn't present in 0000. But I'm speculating wildly...

Affinity Photo 2.0.3,  Affinity Designer 2.0.3, Affinity Publisher 2.0.3, Mac OSX 13, 2018 MacBook Pro 15" Intel.

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6 minutes ago, h_d said:

Hi @thecompu and welcome!

Document menu - Rotate 90º in your chosen direction:

 

Oh, I have to do much, much smaller rotations than that. (I should have said so. Sorry!) I'm talking .. 1 or 2 degrees in one direction or another.

 

6 minutes ago, h_d said:

Samples per pixel in 0000 is 1, in 0002 it's 2

Bits per sample in 0000 is 16, in 0002 it's 16 16

There's also an Extra Samples tag in 0002 which reads "Associated Alpha" and isn't present in 0000

There may be other differences, but I'm not clever enough to tell you what they mean, or whether they would stop a file rendering properly on the Internet Archive. It may be that 0002 has an alpha channel that isn't present in 0000. But I'm speculating wildly...

 

Yeah, I wouldn't know what those mean either. I should find an ExifTool for Windows so I can peek at what you mean.

Thanks so much for replying!

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5 minutes ago, thecompu said:

ExifTool for Windows

It's cross-platform.

5 minutes ago, thecompu said:

I'm talking .. 1 or 2 degrees in one direction or another.

:50_open_mouth: The Transform panel is another option:

Screenshot_2020-09-11_at_23_18_57.thumb.png.38445cb5747abf57b674941b5fe8a249.png

Affinity Photo 2.0.3,  Affinity Designer 2.0.3, Affinity Publisher 2.0.3, Mac OSX 13, 2018 MacBook Pro 15" Intel.

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2 minutes ago, thecompu said:

up/down arrow keys at .1 increments

On a Mac, the option (alt) modifier does this. Not sure how it would work out on a PC but I would give alt a try.

Affinity Photo 2.0.3,  Affinity Designer 2.0.3, Affinity Publisher 2.0.3, Mac OSX 13, 2018 MacBook Pro 15" Intel.

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16 minutes ago, h_d said:

On a Mac, the option (alt) modifier does this. Not sure how it would work out on a PC but I would give alt a try.

Beautiful! It's CTRL! Woohoo!

And I can use a guide to line everything up!!

Wow! This makes things so much easier. Doesn't fix the problem I'm having but it helps going forward!

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Saw that, still fiddling with it.

I have an image editor on Mac called Graphic Converter. It opens 0002 like this:

Screenshot_2020-09-12_at_00_10_09.thumb.png.6a94e21395617c4c53ff830ccf005b44.png

 

So there's cropped content in your .TIFF which isn't displayed in AFPhoto but is still there in the file. I'm still struggling to imagine why - did you rasterise after cropping?

Affinity Photo 2.0.3,  Affinity Designer 2.0.3, Affinity Publisher 2.0.3, Mac OSX 13, 2018 MacBook Pro 15" Intel.

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1 minute ago, h_d said:

Your 0000 shows the same as 0002 in Channels so I don't think it's that.

Yeah, I think I've determined that there's _always_ an alpha channel. It may be that it's showing up in the exif data because there's a second image in there somehow...

 

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7 minutes ago, thecompu said:

Same problem!

Yup, grungy in Graphic Converter, every other editor I have displays fine.

Screenshot_2020-09-12_at_00_35_36.thumb.png.0ab343e8c68f5de65b9a0895e8c2dcad.png

Affinity Photo 2.0.3,  Affinity Designer 2.0.3, Affinity Publisher 2.0.3, Mac OSX 13, 2018 MacBook Pro 15" Intel.

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8 minutes ago, thecompu said:

Can you open it in GraphicConverter?

Yeah but...

Screenshot_2020-09-12_at_00_41_26.thumb.png.4ea9c176958a20d7c869c6bc28a00e79.png

 

Tomorrow morning someone will come along and suggest something obvious ;)

Affinity Photo 2.0.3,  Affinity Designer 2.0.3, Affinity Publisher 2.0.3, Mac OSX 13, 2018 MacBook Pro 15" Intel.

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Am I right in thinking that the originals are getting squashed to 50% of their original width in the GraphicConverter/IA versions?

Affinity Photo 2.0.3,  Affinity Designer 2.0.3, Affinity Publisher 2.0.3, Mac OSX 13, 2018 MacBook Pro 15" Intel.

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Try converting the Colour Format to Grey/8 from Grey/16:

1005700612_Screenshot2020-09-12at00_55_29.png.c1c336d309c3ca17f886aab383130606.png

Choir_Herald_April_1921 now looks like this in GC:

 

Screenshot_2020-09-12_at_01_00_00.thumb.png.ed9b7bd82cfa69623bd696d5d5207cab.png

 

And no I don't understand why GC says it's RGB... Wonder what IA thinks?

I've attached the converted TIFF.  The_Choir_Herald_April_1921_0000_8bit.tiff

 

Affinity Photo 2.0.3,  Affinity Designer 2.0.3, Affinity Publisher 2.0.3, Mac OSX 13, 2018 MacBook Pro 15" Intel.

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I flattened the original  0002 in Photo, exported as TIFF (without a white matte) and opened in GraphicConverter:

Screenshot_2020-09-12_at_01_37_45.thumb.png.c2542689fc997ba629c764fe0d06499a.png

Looks a whole lot better, though GC still says it's RGB. Seems like flattening has the same effect as converting from G16 to G8.

Affinity Photo 2.0.3,  Affinity Designer 2.0.3, Affinity Publisher 2.0.3, Mac OSX 13, 2018 MacBook Pro 15" Intel.

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