Expand Stroke in Affinity Designer not working

[Foolix]

Hi there,

when I use the function "expand stroke" on an object with a more complex outline all the program does is deselect the layer.

Am I missing something or is this feature not working yet?

Thanks. F

[Gear maker]

It looks like at least the top image was made using a brush.  Possibly a vector brush but either way the image itself is a pixel image, not a vector.  In a vector brush stroke the path of the brush is a vector but the image is pixel which can't be expanded.  I'd guess the frame is a pixel image also so that it can't be expanded.

[Alfred]

Here’s a reprise of my post to a similar recent thread:

 

[Foolix]

So brushes are not actually vevtor objects I learn. That's quite disappointing, unfortunately.

[awakenedbyowls]

So how does one convert a sketch made using the vector brush tool into a vector shape then? 

There surely must be a way. If not then that is disappointing indeed. Why is it called a Vector Brush Tool if it's raster?

...

So basically I have to sketch using the pencil tool and set the properties? Struggling a bit with that. Say I want a curved line that starts and ends with a point (eg. engraving #64) I can set the pencil stroke to draw that and then expand stroke. Is that possible, because all I seem to be able to do is draw a basic line set at whatever stroke width and then change it after in the preferences.

Edited May 19, 2021 by awakenedbyowls

[Andy05]

38 minutes ago, awakenedbyowls said:

Why is it called a Vector Brush Tool if it's raster?

 

[walt.farrell]

49 minutes ago, awakenedbyowls said:

So basically I have to sketch using the pencil tool and set the properties?

I think you could also use the first two brushes in the Pens category (Solid Pen with Pressure, and Solid Pen with Pressure and Opacity).

Or any of the brushes from the Basic category. This was deleted in 1.9, but you can get it by following these instructions from Affinity Spotlight:

https://affinityspotlight.com/article/get-legacy-affinity-brushes/

[awakenedbyowls]

52 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

I think you could also use the first two brushes in the Pens category (Solid Pen with Pressure, and Solid Pen with Pressure and Opacity).

Or any of the brushes from the Basic category. This was deleted in 1.9, but you can get it by following these instructions from Affinity Spotlight:

https://affinityspotlight.com/article/get-legacy-affinity-brushes/

The first two brushes in the Pens category just seem to draw normal lines, I looked at them. Not sure what I'm doing wrong there.

There is still the option to resize the brushes and adjust the stroke. I don't know if there is a way to set it such that the rate at which resize are the same though? If there is then this is effectively the functionality I'd be looking for from using the Expand Stroke feature.

Edited May 19, 2021 by awakenedbyowls

[walt.farrell]

1 minute ago, awakenedbyowls said:

The first two brushes in the Pens category just seem to draw normal lines, I looked at them. Not sure what I'm doing wrong there.

There is still the option to resize the brushes and adjust the stroke. I don't know if there is a way to set it such that the rate at which resize are the same though? 

Sorry; I thought we were discussing Expand Stroke. That should work with those brushes, as they are true vector brushes.

[awakenedbyowls]

2 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

Sorry; I thought we were discussing Expand Stroke. That should work with those brushes, as they are true vector brushes.

Yes that's what we're talking about - the fact Expand Stroke doesn't work with Vector Brushes.

If it does work and I'm missing something then I'd love to know what?

[walt.farrell]

11 minutes ago, awakenedbyowls said:

Yes that's what we're talking about - the fact Expand Stroke doesn't work with Vector Brushes.

My understanding is that it works with the pure vector brushes (the ones I pointed out), but does not work with the others (which have raster components).

If I draw a shape using either of the first two brushes in the Pens category, or any of the brushes in the Basic category, I get a (Curve) layer. If I then use Layer > Expand Stroke it becomes a (Curves) layer, with most nodes doubled, and when I use the Node tool I can pull those nodes apart to make a wider stroke.

None of that happens if I draw a shape using the other "vector" brushes.

 

[awakenedbyowls]

14 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

My understanding is that it works with the pure vector brushes (the ones I pointed out), but does not work with the others (which have raster components).

If I draw a shape using either of the first two brushes in the Pens category, or any of the brushes in the Basic category, I get a (Curve) layer. If I then use Layer > Expand Stroke it becomes a (Curves) layer, with most nodes doubled, and when I use the Node tool I can pull those nodes apart to make a wider stroke.

None of that happens if I draw a shape using the other "vector" brushes.

 

Yes ok, but I looked at those ones and they do indeed work with Expand Stroke. It's just they don't look anything like the form they take on the menu - they are just drawing out as normal vectors (on my copy anyway)

However..

If I tick Scale With Object in the Stroke menu then it scales the stroke size to whatever size I want to resize the object to, which is effectively the same as expanding the stroke into a shape and resizing it.

Edited May 19, 2021 by awakenedbyowls

[walt.farrell]

5 minutes ago, awakenedbyowls said:

It's just they don't look anything like the form they take on the menu - they are just drawing out as normal vectors (on my copy anyway)

Sorry, but I don't understand what you mean by that.

[awakenedbyowls]

2 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Sorry, but I don't understand what you mean by that.

I'm using the 3rd one down in the Engraving menu, which has pointy ends and is fat in the middle. The two ones you directed me to in the Pen menu are similar, but with rounded ends. When I select those brushes and draw on the canvas they just draw a normal vector line that's the same stroke size along the entire length, no matter what stroke size I select, as though I was just drawing a line with the Pen Tool.

[walt.farrell]

2 minutes ago, awakenedbyowls said:

When I select those brushes and draw on the canvas they just draw a normal vector line that's the same stroke size along the entire length, no matter what stroke size I select, as though I was just drawing a line with the Pen Tool.

Thanks. As far as I know that's not at all related to Expand Stroke. It's just about using brushes.

What are you drawing with (mouse, or drawing stylus)?

If you're using a stylus, have you enabled Pressure as the controller in the Context Toolbar? Have you tried adjusting the brush settings in the More dialog (also in the Context Toolbar)?

[awakenedbyowls]

15 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Thanks. As far as I know that's not at all related to Expand Stroke. It's just about using brushes.

What are you drawing with (mouse, or drawing stylus)?

If you're using a stylus, have you enabled Pressure as the controller in the Context Toolbar? Have you tried adjusting the brush settings in the More dialog (also in the Context Toolbar)?

Mouse.

I've tried adjusting the brush settings but it just draws a basic line. Unless I'm still missing something obvious this is starting to look like a bug.

I'm looking at the brush settings on another brush and it looks like the Size Variance bar is having no effect.

Edited May 19, 2021 by awakenedbyowls

[walt.farrell]

8 minutes ago, awakenedbyowls said:

Mouse.

I've tried adjusting the brush settings but it just draws a basic line.

With a mouse, for the true vector brushes you'll need to set the Pressure curve at the bottom of the Stroke panel. You can set other parameters using the Properties button there, too.

[awakenedbyowls]

15 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

With a mouse, for the true vector brushes you'll need to set the Pressure curve at the bottom of the Stroke panel. You can set other parameters using the Properties button there, too.

I looked at that, but I'm not sure how to use it. 

In any case, if I'm using a brush with predetermined setting for Size and Opacity Variance along the length of the stroke then I don't understand why I need to also set a pressure curve. I assume drawing styli have some kind of functionality related to pressure that mice don't, but if the result of pressure applied otherwise is already programmed into the nature of the brush stroke then why do I need this?

The Opacity Variance bar also seems to have no effect (as well as Size). Are you saying I need to set a Pressure Curve for each setting I choose for those? That's makes no sense to me, because I would have assumed any details like that would be automatically coded within the brush settings.

...

Actually.... the more I look into to this the more it's becoming clear that none of the settings in Brush Settings have any effect, with the exception of Brush Width.

Edited May 19, 2021 by awakenedbyowls

[R C-R]

3 hours ago, awakenedbyowls said:

I assume drawing styli have some kind of functionality related to pressure that mice don't...

I do not know of any conventional mouse that is pressure sensitive -- IOW, it does not matter how hard you press down on it when drawing a curve. That functionality is only found in drawing tablets & such.

[Gear maker]

On 5/19/2021 at 5:14 AM, awakenedbyowls said:

There surely must be a way. If not then that is disappointing indeed. Why is it called a Vector Brush Tool if it's raster?

I don't think anyone has actually answered this question for you.  It's a vector brush because the path it takes is a vector and can be manipulated by vector tools such as the node tool.  The path then controls where the pixel image of the brush is drawn.  And due to it being a pixel image some vector tools do not work, such as Expand.  Yes, it probably should be called something like a Hybrid brush, but that would be probably even more confusing.  I hope this helps.

[awakenedbyowls]

So I've only been at this 10 minutes today and already I'm hitting walls again.

Using the Vector Brush tool to trace out shapes and then Expanding the Stroke into a filled object. This technique has worked well for me in general, however this morning I find this mess. Is this happening because I'm drawing the vectors in pressure mode?

I don't get it. I thought expand Stroke took the blob of colour that was there as a Vector Brush, in the stroke width shown and makes it into a filled object that looks exactly the same? If it doesn't do that then what exactly is the point or use of Expand Stroke?

Why isn't this working?

[PixelPest]

Can you share an example file to see how these "spikes" a generated, because to my knowledge image based brushes can´t be expanded.

[awakenedbyowls]

This do?

I managed to fix the problem by deleting a few nodes, but it would be useful to know what's gone wrong here so as not to get in the way of future work flow.

example1.afdesign

[PixelPest]

Please enable outline view mode and look at the mess you have made.

It seems to be made from one weird stroke and arranged via duplicate/copy&paste&transform.

So before duplicating I´d test the base shape to avoid any surprises later one.

What works here is at least to select all nodes and change them into "smart nodes" - expand stroke:

[awakenedbyowls]

Smart Nodes. Roger that 👍

I know it's a mess but I find creating the objects in some designs this way easier and quicker than using the Pen Tool, and also the result is a design that looks more like it's actually painted than cheaty digital painting.

The idea is it's a mess until I convert the objects to fill and then add them to the main blob. I hope Smart Nodes can fix some of the issues I've been having with this feature, lots of issues..