Changing text frames changes font size, publisher 1.8.4

[Angalanse]

What I don't get is the reversed positions here. If I point out a problem, the responses suggest that I should be able to prove that it is indeed a problem. Why would I do that? Isn't Serif interested in getting feedback from real users? Also, why do you assume that I'm an inexperienced user? I'm not. I have used the Affinity suite from the very beginning, and have even been part of the beta tests. I have been working with publishing for over 20 years, specifically in academia, where I have been enthusiastic about being able to suggest alternatives to the Adobe suite. Affinity is (or rather, I assume, could have been) perfect for PhD students, post-docs or for that matter other research groups that do not want to bind themselves to expensive services.

This is an issue that has reached the leadership at the universities in Sweden that I have worked at, and I have shared my experiences. Yet I know, because I have helped out with very many theses and books, that the issue that I am describing would be a huge issue. If the text size changes by resizing the frames, that would mean that the researcher or doctoral student would have to check the entire book every time he or she makes such changes.

Now, I really, really don't get why you assume that this is a user error. Once again, I'm not an inexperienced user, I never moved the scaling handles. You just assumed that I did and labeled the problem as being my fault. But what if it's not? Aren't you interested in getting this kind of feedback from the users? Isn't this what a bug forum is for? And I do not share your view @Hilltop regarding the professional tone in the responses. A professional response, in my opinion, would have been to reply with a short thanks and ask for the file, to see whether it was indeed a bug.

[prophet]

6 hours ago, Angalanse said:

If I point out a problem, the responses suggest that I should be able to prove that it is indeed a problem.

To a certain degree. yes. If you find a suspected problem, you need to be able to show the steps taken to generate the problem.

6 hours ago, Angalanse said:

I never moved the scaling handles.

I'm sure all involved believe you, but as pointed out by several, you have not provided a complete, step-by-step walk through of the problem, so we can't be sure. Per @walt.farrell, if you could provide a video of your steps from a blank canvas forward, it would remove variables and help with the diagnosis.

[Angalanse]

Right. But the issue is already resolved according to the official reply: "Nope, it's not a bug. You scaled the text frame, so the text will come in scaled."

[prophet]

5 minutes ago, Angalanse said:

Right. But the issue is already resolved according to the official reply: "Nope, it's not a bug. You scaled the text frame, so the text will come in scaled."

So you concede you scaled the text frame? I'm confused.

If you didn't scale the text frame, then the "burden of proof" (if you will) is on you to recreate the issue in a clear video and/or file and provide it to the developers (and community here) for review.

[Alfred]

7 minutes ago, Angalanse said:

Right. But the issue is already resolved according to the official reply: "Nope, it's not a bug. You scaled the text frame, so the text will come in scaled."

If you can demonstrate clearly that the problem arises even when the text frame hasn’t been scaled, I’m sure Serif’s QA staff will be more than happy to reopen the issue.

[Angalanse]

Prophet, sorry, I didn't scale the frame. I was being sarcastic about the fact that the official reply assumed that I did and closed the case.

 

Alfred, why on earth would I want to do that? Why would *anyone* want to raise issues in this forum? It's a genuine question, given the official replies to the enthusiasts?

[walt.farrell]

1 minute ago, Angalanse said:

why on earth would I want to do that?

Because if you can provide enough information, Serif will be able to identify the issue and fix it. If you think there is a bug, but you don't care whether it gets fixed, then that's fine, too.

A report that doesn't have enough information makes it very difficult (often impossible) to figure out what is happening. If you have a sequence of steps that is repeatable, and causes the problem, then possibly it will also recreate for Serif staff and they will find the problem.

That's why I suggested that a video that starts earlier, and inclusion of the actual files (the .afpub file with the problem, the Word document if you pasted one in) would be useful. In particular, I believe that the .afpub file would prove to Serif whether or not scaling was involved. But a video from start to finish (not from somewhere in the middle to finish), would also show that.

I don't think Serif said "you scaled the frame". They said that that is the usual cause, and asked for more information to show that scaling is not involved and that something else is happening. I hypothesized that it's something to do with the Word document you pasted in, but to diagnose that, again, the documents are needed and more information about the workflow.

[Angalanse]

Walt, I do appreciate the reply and the hypothesizing, but please read the official communication again.

[thadeusz]

But guys, really, I'm asking again, why scaling of the text box makes any difference, how you think of it? If you have an (unconnected) textblock, scaling can be quite useful. But as soon as it's connected, do you really want to have your perfectly prepared text styles to be scaled? And then - only a few lines of text? Maybe the text which was in the box when scaled, maybe some lines of text from the first paragraph? I have never seen such a weird behaviour and - if you don't mind - I call it a bug, others might call it a strange feature.
Again, what's missing here is, that there is no indication, that a text frame is scaled at all. That would be helpful to not run into unnotified scaling issues. In Indesign scaling parameter is also not shown, but only the text which is in the textbox when scaling is done, will be bigger. Makes more sense to me.

[walt.farrell]

5 minutes ago, thadeusz said:

But guys, really, I'm asking again, why scaling of the text box makes any difference, how you think of it?

Because Serif has said that it is normal for that effect to occur if the frame has been scaled. At that point, in my opinion, that makes it "not a bug". It may be an odd feature that I don't need, nor appreciate.

6 minutes ago, thadeusz said:

Again, what's missing here is, that there is no indication, that a text frame is scaled at all.

Yes, that would be useful and I think is one of the suggestions that has been made to the Developers. We need to know if a frame has been scaled, and we need a way to reset it.

[carl123]

2 minutes ago, thadeusz said:

Again, what's missing here is, that there is no indication, that a text frame is scaled at all

There are some tell-tale signs when a text frame has been rescaled using the extra handle

1. The Horizontal Scale value in the Character Panel changes from 100% to something else

2. The default value for Space after Paragraph changes in the Paragraph panel

Angalanse's 2nd video does not show any of these changes as far as I can see - which would seem to validate his/her assertion that they have not rescaled the text frame      (?)

Maybe, there is another (so far, undiscovered) reason for this effect other than rescaling a text frame by using the extra handle

[jmwellborn]

40 minutes ago, Alfred said:

If you can demonstrate clearly that the problem arises even when the text frame hasn’t been scaled, I’m sure Serif’s QA staff will be more than happy to reopen the issue.

Alfred is right, and so is @walt.farrell.  And so is @prophet.  And so is . . .   @Angalanse if you are really interested in having your problem solved, you would spend a few minutes creating a document where your “problem” appears, and post it.  Or post a document with the “problem” already there.  It could be that like so many millions of people in this world who are exhausted with face masks, social distancing, closed offices, closed restaurants, closed schools, cancelled holidays, etc. etc. etc., you are conceivably taking out your frustration here.

 I am a retired publisher, editor, and author who has used Pagemaker and later Adobe Indesign extensively.  I am now using, and loving Publisher.  Publisher is young, and took some time to learn — not because it is lacking, but because it already has so many wonderful possibilities.  They were not always easy to discover, but they are there.  As time goes by, it will become ever-better.  In my humble opinion (just mine) it is already velvet compared to the scratchy wool of Adobe.

While discovering its many possibilities, I made my share of strange moves.  Each time I ran afoul, someone — or many someones —  on these forums was wonderfully helpful in sorting me out. I know that the very next time I am stuck — whether on Publisher, Photo, or Designer — there will be extremely generous and extraordinarily knowledgeable people (both users and Affinity developers) who will be there to sort me out.  

Please try? 

[Angalanse]

Appreciate the answers, put to add on the last comment -- what is so frustrating for me is that this has ever since the start been phrased as *my* problem. It is not, in my opinion. It is *Serif's* problem, which I (at least initially) wanted to assist them with.

The issue has been handled as if I had posted in a support forum where I ask Serif (and others) to solve my problems.

But this is a bug forum, where I had assumed that the roles are reversed (I.e. Serif asking users for assistance in ironing out inconsistencies). Instead, I am either offered (incorrect) descriptions of what I did, or suggestions that I need to "prove" that there is an error.

Therefore, I ask again, what kind of issues *do* Serif want me/us to raise here?

[prophet]

42 minutes ago, Angalanse said:

But this is a bug forum... I need to "prove" that there is an error.

Well, yes. When you decide to post a bug report, you do take on the responsibility of showing the bug to everyone. You have chosen to become part of the conversation and are saddled with the burden of proof. You have not, as yet, been able to show the bug in a clear, step-by-step, start to finish way.

What you have shown is an unexpected behavior which has been documented elsewhere to be the result of scaling a text frame. And though many of us find that behavior confusing and, frankly, wrong, it is a known behavior. If you have discovered another way of generating that behavior, it very well may be a bug, but it is up to you to show us ALL THE STEPS taken to achieve the bug. Only then can the developers understand what has happened and address it.

[Oval]

16 minutes ago, prophet said:

ALL THE STEPS

Angalanse only slightly changed the height of one text box**. Nothing else. Right?

 

**which should not change the text size of some words.

[Angalanse]

Prophet, I agree. I would gladly have provided that, which was also the reason why I uploaded a more detailed clip. But given the official responses I was given, why would I continue pushing the issue? If they are clearly not interested in looking into the odd behavior, why should I?

I mean according to them the issue is already resolved: there is no problem, and if it is, it was my fault.

[prophet]

50 minutes ago, Oval said:

Angalanse only slightly changed the height of one text box**. Nothing else. Right?

That's what we see in the video, yes. But as others have mentioned, something may have happened before that point in the workflow. The simplest (and documented) explanation is that the first text frame was scaled at some point prior. @Angalanse says such a thing did not happen and we want to believe them. However, until we see a workflow from a blank page through the appearance of the "bug" or are provided with a document, no one on this end, developers included, can be sure of what really happened.

35 minutes ago, Angalanse said:

I would gladly have provided that

But you have not provided what is needed to help resolve the issue. It boils down to this…can you, and/or are you willing to, explore the issue a little further and create a video clip or document of the "bug" appearing from a blank page state? If the answer is no, then I suppose we're done here.

[thadeusz]

I recently had a problem, where at some point I had one text frame separating correctly as a spot color and an exactly the same looking text frame was separating only in CMYK. The problem was, I didn't know, how I created this difference and how to fix it. I wrote to this forum anyway and maybe it is a bug. After your "declaration of truth", this bug is not allowed to exist. As much as I understand your will for a clear question, sometimes it's not possible. And I think this should be ok. No one is forced to answer. But there should be enough room for those who want to share and help each other. I found the starting question very good described, even I couldn't recreate it. So it would be interesting to know, how it could happen.

[carl123]

9 hours ago, Angalanse said:

But this is a bug forum...I need to "prove" that there is an error.

No, if something goes wrong you can report it to the forum giving as much information as you have and where necessary stating what and what you did not do.

If there is a clear way to recreate the bug then that information should be provided but it is not up to any user to "prove" anything when reporting bugs.

Over time multiple reports of the same problem can piece together different bits of information that eventually reveals a pattern which can then be used to recreate the problem and ultimately provide a fix for it.
 

[Alfred]

4 hours ago, carl123 said:

multiple reports of the same problem can piece together different bits of information

Well, reports can’t piece together anything: that’s the job of QA staff. But since Boris Johnson is still Prime Minister I suppose we’ll have to let you off!

[jwst]

Sorry this is way after the sell-by date of this topic, but from my point of view I won't argue whether it's a bug or not, but it is accepted that scaledness is a property of the scaled text frame.  Therefore it should be accessible as a text frame property in the text frame studio so it can be set/reset numerically.  That's where I looked when I had the same problem, and actually deduced the reason, but the scaled property of the text frame is not included in the Text Frame Studio.

Apologies if this same issue is in a more recent topic, or if I ought to have created a new topic.  I hope someone sees this post and understands my point.