Adjustment layers in groups (Publisher)

[Bobbob]

I have a group which contains a number of vector layers and a pixel layer as the lowest for the background. If I add an adjustment layer to the pixel layer it only affects the pixel layer and the other layers render as expected. However, if I (accidentally) move the adjustment layer to be immediately above the pixel layer, it only adjusts the pixel layer but it causes all the vector layers above it to be rasterised on export.

Is this the expected behaviour? It's kind of a pain.

Publisher 1.8.4.693 on Win 10

[Bobbob]

Anyone?

[thomaso]

As you noticed correctly the layer's hierarchy, order + nesting, is important and relevant for their appearance + influence on each other.

Yes, blend modes, adjustments, effects, filters can force rasterisation on export. But it also depends on your export file format and settings.

[Dan C]

Hi @Bobbob,

Apologies for the delayed response here. As Thomaso has mentioned the layer order is very important here, as well as any FX & blend modes applied to your vector objects.

Could you please provide a copy of your .afpub file, or alternatively a screenshot of your layers studio for me so I can look into this further?

Many thanks in advance!

[Bobbob]

Hi @Dan C

thanks for getting back to me. Here's a minimal demonstration: The text "UNGROUPED" on p1 is not rasterised on export but the text "GROUPED1" on p2 is (I set 36DPI in the export dialogue to make it clear). The two text objects seem to have the same relationship to the adjustment layers below them, but only the one that is in a group is rasterised on export. The text "GROUPED2" is not rasterised, which is as I would expect as in this case the adjustment layer is attached to the image.

I used soft proof layers to demonstrate because that's how I initially found this behaviour and also I thought they weren't supposed to do anything on export.

If this is how things are supposed to work that's fine, but it seems a bit weird and I wish I'd noticed before I sent an expensive job to print...

Steve

goup_text_test.pdf goup_text_test.afpub

[Dan C]

Many thanks for your file Steve, I can certainly see the issue and I don't believe that 'GROUPED1' should be being rasterised here.

I'll log this as a bug with our developers now and will use your file as an example.

Many thanks again for your report

[Bobbob]

Thanks Dan,

something that would really have helped me to pick this up would be if there was some way to check for vector layers being rasterised - an optional warning in preflight maybe?

[thomaso]

46 minutes ago, Bobbob said:

to check for vector layers being rasterised - an optional warning in preflight maybe?

Good point! Though I'd say I got used to the fact that rasterisation happens almost with every blend mode, adjustment, effect and filter it would help in cases of issues like this.

The available pixel preview in menu View > View Mode > Split View will be misleading if used for such an approach because showing everything in pixels only.

The option to check by test exports still requires a little cumbersome workflow currently because the export options resist to remember the recently used area setting (e.g. current page or selection) and the PDF view requires intense zooming, unless it was set to a quite low resolution before export (which needs to get reset for final export).

[Bobbob]

@thomaso yes, with export at 300dpi you can only just about tell at maximum zoom on my PDF reader, but it can make a big difference to the final print job. 

[thomaso]

1 hour ago, Bobbob said:

an optional warning in preflight maybe?

I guess this wouldn't be sufficient, since it just tells page numbers. In your case it would have reported rasterisation for the page but wouldn't have made it clear that wrong objects are affected. You would need to double-click each single preflight entry to be guided to specific objects – but still would not see the real result before export.

That is what made me think of the split preview mode. Maybe as kind of third option aside vector + pixel, which previews for a specific export setting (which would require the app to remember current settings).

[Bobbob]

Maybe if the split preview mode had a slider for dpi or something?

 

[thomaso]

6 hours ago, Bobbob said:

Maybe if the split preview mode had a slider for dpi or something?

It's not only about resolution. An eventually rasterisation on export also depends on your selected PDF version and its according or its manually chosen setting for rasterisation and advanced feature support.

[Dan C]

@Bobbob I've had a response from the developers, which I'll include below -

"The Soft Proof Adjustment in this configuration ('Grouped1') will force the entire group to be rasterised. This is by design, as if the group has an adjustment as one of its immediate children, it will be rasterised."

I recommend setting up documents using the 'Grouped2' layout shown in your example document.

I hope this helps!

[Bobbob]

OK, thanks @Dan C, but in that case why doesn't the "Ungrouped" text get rasterised?

[thomaso]

Bobbob, as far I understand Dan's hints: An adjustment, if it is nested in a layer, always causes rasterising of its immediate parent layer. If the parent layer is a (Group) then the entire group gets rasterised. If the adjustment is in a (Group) inside another (Group) then only the immediate parent layer gets rasterised but not the group above.

The text "Ungrouped" is not nested at all, so it has no parent layer which would get rasterised.