AD v PP

[MikeW]

Largely true...to a point. How many Adobe customers when they abandoned projects? DPS is something commercial customers were depending on. How many applications have they, or Microsoft, abandoned and screwed their customers, large and small alike?

Point being if one is big enough and have enough customers depend on ya, one can throw monkey wrenches into your customers' works whether they are corporate entities or not.

[Jowday]

We still had migration tools and replacement software with similar features in our project; er left burning platforms for compentent platforms and could work as before largely unaffected even when screwed.

Microsoft actually kindly assisted us towards another product when their product stopped moving in a particular direction - free of charge.

[jackamus]

1 hour ago, Jowday said:

Use hobbyist software and take hobbyist risks.

Yes that's an obvious way to go if all else fails and you have the time to retrain yourself.

[jackamus]

1 hour ago, MikeW said:

While I agree in that sentiment in general, to me Jack's "issue" isn't due to hobby software. There's plenty of Mac software, both professional and "hobby" software that exists only for a Mac, that if he had switched to a Windows computer from a Mac, he would have been in the same boat.

So to me, it is a lack of researching as to the ramifications of such a switch would have concerning his software. The same applies to even upgrading an OS that one depends on software that does not run on a newer OS version. Both problems exist and people, even professionals, make those mistakes every day.

Actually when I first got my Mac only weeks before AD was published I was able to borrow a Windows laptop on which I was going to use DP8. Just as I got it set up out came AD! So I ditched the laptop and the rest is history. Hindsight is great!

[R C-R]

2 hours ago, MikeW said:

How many Adobe customers when they abandoned projects?

I wonder how many people will read that & think about how Adobe handled the acquisition of the much beloved Freehand app?

[MikeW]

52 minutes ago, R C-R said:

I wonder how many people will read that & think about how Adobe handled the acquisition of the much beloved Freehand app?

Dunno. But that scenario isn't really pertinent to what I wrote. Adobe purchased the company for other technology. That they killed off a competing application is an all too familiar thing. Microsoft is even more guilty of that than Adobe has been (I think).

[Jowday]

Adobe still provided a very competent and mature alternative - not just an almost featureless newborn program that still struggles with vector operations and vector output after five long years. That is the main point.

Adobe killed a competitor leaving the old customers few competent alternatives. Serif killed their own child but left old customers with MANY alternatives. Unfortunately these alternatives are developed by competitors.

Some companies do it right and more elegant. When Corel acquired Gravit Designer they kept it alive as a separate product. I even got a discount as an old timer. I am not naive - things may change - but I am not worried either.

[carl123]

4 hours ago, Jowday said:

Serif killed their own child

Serif did not kill their child

It still has an active support forum and highly knowledgeable community (just like here) which offers support daily to anyone that has problems.

Serif personnel still respond to questions in that forum that the community does/can not answer.

Serif have also previously stated that any changes in Windows OS that may prevent their legacy apps from working would be looked at and a fix provided where possible.

The "child" is not dead it is mature enough to stand on its own whilst Serif nurtures its new bambino to take over from it for the generations of Designers to come.

 

[Jowday]

42 minutes ago, carl123 said:

Serif did not kill their child

It still has an active support forum and highly knowledgeable community (just like here) which offers support daily to anyone that has problems.

Serif personnel still respond to questions in that forum that the community does/can not answer.

Serif have also previously stated that any changes in Windows OS that may prevent their legacy apps from working would be looked at and a fix provided where possible.

The "child" is not dead it is mature enough to stand on its own whilst Serif nurtures its new bambino to take over from it for the generations of Designers to come.

Wunderwaffe talk.

Its dead. Serif abandoned the Plus range. You cannot purchase it anymore and no updates will be provided except the ones you described. It is a retired product and it is a fact. If Affinity can’t deliver you cannot purchase Plus. Further any file saved in the old Plus formats cannot be migrated to Affinity. It is simply history smd not an option.

And now “generations of designers” can wait for features to re-emerge in the pre-school Affinity range and for features like expand stroke or divide to reach an acceptable level. It is like waiting for “the year of desktop Linux” !!

Generations of non-hobbyists do not have a choice here. Have fun waiting forever for a fork and knife in front of a dish with food. 

[jackamus]

 

1 hour ago, Jowday said:

Wunderwaffe talk.

Its dead. Serif abandoned the Plus range. You cannot purchase it anymore and no updates will be provided except the ones you described. It is a retired product and it is a fact. If Affinity can’t deliver you cannot purchase Plus. Further any file saved in the old Plus formats cannot be migrated to Affinity. It is simply history smd not an option.

And now “generations of designers” can wait for features to re-emerge in the pre-school Affinity range and for features like expand stroke or divide to reach an acceptable level. It is like waiting for “the year of desktop Linux” !!

Generations of non-hobbyists do not have a choice here. Have fun waiting forever for a fork and knife in front of a dish with food. 

To the casual user Serif, over 22 years, developed a great Windows 'wheel 'called DrawPlus.

Today Serif have 're-invented their 'wheel' for Windows only this one doesn't run as well as the old 'wheel'. Apparently they did this so that it would have the same limited features as the Mac 'wheels'.

Regarding working with 'old code' do programs degrade in some way over time?

[jackamus]

1 hour ago, Jowday said:

Wunderwaffe talk.

 Further any file saved in the old Plus formats cannot be migrated to Affinity.

 

 

I have to play devil's advocate here Jowday. I was able to save a DP8 file as a pdf and open it in AD for Mac. The problem was that it lost it layer configuration and each object was its own layer. It would be very difficult to continue to work with it but not impossible.

[Alfred]

3 hours ago, carl123 said:

Serif have also previously stated that any changes in Windows OS that may prevent their legacy apps from working would be looked at and a fix provided where possible.

Er ... not quite! Serif stated that if something became broken because of an OS update they would attempt to provide fixes for their legacy applications as long as they were still selling them. They continued to offer PagePlus, DrawPlus and PhotoPlus (at bargain prices) for quite a while after that announcement, but they are no longer selling those or any other legacy applications.

[Jowday]

15 hours ago, jackamus said:

I have to play devil's advocate here Jowday. I was able to save a DP8 file as a pdf and open it in AD for Mac. The problem was that it lost it layer configuration and each object was its own layer. It would be very difficult to continue to work with it but not impossible.

Some simple files can be migrated this way - but I would never consider this with many and complex files. And never ever in a commercial setup. 

[jackamus]

I agree.

This is the file I started in DP and then saved as a pdf and opened it in AD. You can see the nightmare it would be so I abandoned it. 

SS_Jaguar_2.afdesign