Can't reorder objects on layer?

[Stokestack]

Hi all.

 

I noticed that in one of my Designer documents, one of the objects ( a simple filled rectangle) didn't reside on any layer.  There's one layer (which contains three imported images), and then at the same level there's the rectangle.

 

This brings up a question: Why are objects allowed to exist on no layer?  What is the point?  And why did a layer get created in the first place then?

 

Another question: I moved the rectangle onto the sole layer.  That worked, but now it was on top of all the other objects and blotting them out.  So I dragged the rectangle down in the layer's hierarchy of objects, but it refused to remain a peer of the other objects.  It instead could only be placed within (indented under) one of the other objects.  Any attempt to drag the item to the bottom resulted in this incorrect result, or the rectangle once again falling out of the layer entirely and existing in a void.

 

I attached a screen grab of this perplexing interaction.  Anyone have any insights on it?

 

Thanks!

layerProblem.mov

[marsofearth]

Hi,  

 

 

This brings up a question: Why are objects allowed to exist on no layer?  What is the point?  And why did a layer get created in the first place then?

 

 

Maybe there is a glitch happening I am not sure by what you have shown.

 

From what I can tell, If no Layer or Group is selected when you Create a new Object, it will be created on it's own Layer at the very top of the Hierarchy.

 

The characteristic of moving the Fill Object around different layers looks appropriate though, without seeing how the object is reacting to the other elements.

 

When moving an object below a (triangle) GROUP you watch for the BLUE LINE length and how that references where the object will be placed.

 

Hard to explain.  Have a look here: https://youtu.be/A6bmslDSDEE

 

I hope it makes sense?

[Dave Harris]

This brings up a question: Why are objects allowed to exist on no layer?  What is the point?

Why not? Sometimes layers are superfluous and just add an unnecessary level to the object hierarchy.

 

And why did a layer get created in the first place then?

To gently nudge users into using layers because usually they are beneficial.

 

Another question: I moved the rectangle onto the sole layer.  That worked, but now it was on top of all the other objects and blotting them out.  So I dragged the rectangle down in the layer's hierarchy of objects, but it refused to remain a peer of the other objects.  It instead could only be placed within (indented under) one of the other objects.  Any attempt to drag the item to the bottom resulted in this incorrect result, or the rectangle once again falling out of the layer entirely and existing in a void.

Dragging in the Layer tab is very sensitive about where the cursor is when you drop. If, while you are holding the mouse down, you move the mouse from left to right as well as up and down, you should see the drop marker moving too.  If the mouse is below an object's icon, you'll drop at the same level as the object. If it is to the right, you'll make a child, and if to the left you'll make a parent. (And if you move it over an object's icon itself, you'll be masking the object.)

[MEB]

Hi Smokestack,

Affinity's layer system is a little different from the convention. It doesn't need to have a structured parent-child relation regarding layers and objects. All are considered layers by themselves and can contain and be contained by other layer/objects.

You can learn more about it and layer types in Affinity Designer Help ▹ Layers ▹ About Layers.

[Stokestack]

Thanks for the responses, guys.

 

Why not? Sometimes layers are superfluous and just add an unnecessary level to the object hierarchy.
 
To gently nudge users into using layers because usually they are beneficial.
 
Dragging in the Layer tab is very sensitive about where the cursor is when you drop. If, while you are holding the mouse down, you move the mouse from left to right as well as up and down, you should see the drop marker moving too.  If the mouse is below an object's icon, you'll drop at the same level as the object. If it is to the right, you'll make a child, and if to the left you'll make a parent. (And if you move it over an object's icon itself, you'll be masking the object.)

 
I can see the argument for your first point, but that one level is pretty minimal and a widely accepted standard in art software.  It seems more superfluous in Designer because of Designer's "every object is a layer" concept.  This concept does provide a convenient way to implement clipping (by making one object a child of another), so I'm open-minded about it.

 

My main issue is that the dragging of objects in the layer list did not allow me to place an object at the same level as other objects on a layer (thus changing its priority and overlap of other objects on the canvas).  This is the problem depicted in the video above.  I wanted to keep the rectangle object at the same level on the layer, but simply move it down in the list; the UI wouldn't allow that.  The only choices I had were to either drag the object outside the layer entirely, or drag it below (and make it a child of) an object on the layer.  Here's another screen grab, where I explore the range of cursor movement available even more clearly, and you can see that it never allows the dragged object to be placed at the same level as its peers on the layer:

 

http://ambitiousproductions.com/probs/noPeer.mov

[MEB]

Hi Stokestack,

Maybe it's a little sensitive, but if you drag the object along the blue line horizontally, you can control the position where the object will be placed. The cursor defines the horizontal placement when it is over the blue line.

Check this video.

[Stokestack]

Thanks.

 

But... the chance of hitting that tiny, invisible area is pretty small.  Why doesn't it at least use the entire height of that line highlight?

 

In fact, if you drag to any other position in the list, it does use the entire height of the highlight.  This problem seems to occur only when you're dragging something to the bottom of the list; it's not reacting to the cursor's horizontal position if it's in the lower half of the line highlight.  Seems like a bug.