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Publisher - greyscale PDF creates 4 plate PDF


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I'm trying to create a greyscale PDF X3 output for print but the print house says it's in 4 colour. Does anyone know the right settings to make a simple plate press ready PDF output? Images are in greyscale with the generic greyscale ICC, hence I've not asked the output to convert image colours.

Screenshot 2020-07-13 at 08.42.50.png

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Alternatively to activating the "K Only" button for all single objects you can export with not embedding the profile but activating the convert checkbox.

281420037_grayscaleexportsettings.jpg.2fe1cb92a01cbe0b0b40089b588bed29.jpg


Another option is to export as X-4 pdf with a grayscale profile selected, which does not convert colors but embeds the grayscale profile AND an "Output Intent" which gets used when opening the pdf. But note that not every PDF viewer app reads/respects the Output Indent of PDF/X, as e.g. macOS Preview.app doesn't and will show more than 1 color channel this way.

1882739704_grayscaleexportsettingsX4.jpg.03467de66ef356b952023ceeedaf74a6.jpg

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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4 hours ago, adrianlambert said:

I'm trying to create a greyscale PDF X3 output for print but the print house says it's in 4 colour. Does anyone know the right settings to make a simple plate press ready PDF output? Images are in greyscale with the generic greyscale ICC, hence I've not asked the output to convert image colours.

Screenshot 2020-07-13 at 08.42.50.png

Is your artwork all CMYK in your document and you are trying to convert to 1 colour black through the PDF export?

I have read through a few threads on here with issues making simple PDF's. I have had zero issues making 1 colour black PDF's but I work in the colour space that I am intending it to be on output. So in this case I would make sure all files in a 1 colour black job would be 1 colour black when working on it. I personally think this is the simplest solution rather then fighting and playing with all sorts of presets and output modes. Convert all supporting files to grayscale, make sure black text is 100% K, then export your PDF for print and you will have a print ready PDF in 1 colour black. You will also have a better idea of what your images will look like when converted to greyscale. When using CMYK the greys can look warmer and fuller because they are using CMYK rather than just K. 

 

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Thanks both.

@thomaso The output intent according to acrobat is SWOP coated rather than the chosen profile with x4.

@Lagarto I don't see a K Only option - maybe because the images are grayscale?

It seems to work as expected if I export to PDF1.7 with embed profiles and connect images unselected and the space and profiles set to the document options which are 'Grey/8' and 'Generic Greyscale Profile' respectively.

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2 hours ago, Lagarto said:

But now that I tested PDF-X-based behavior when using Gray/8 document color mode and Greyscale D50 color profile I need to correct myself and say that I was confused by incorrect assignment of color intent, which when I export with default PDF/X1a:2003, PDF/X3 and PDF/X4 is for some odd reason "U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) V2" while I have ISO Coated V2 (ECI) as my Affinity CMYK default, so I do not know where Affinity Publisher gets this

This was also my experience. Wasn't able to see the output intent until opening in acrobat so was wondering if this was added at that stage. But if you're seeing this too it looks like an AP issue.

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2 hours ago, wonderings said:

Is your artwork all CMYK in your document and you are trying to convert to 1 colour black through the PDF export?

I have read through a few threads on here with issues making simple PDF's. I have had zero issues making 1 colour black PDF's but I work in the colour space that I am intending it to be on output. So in this case I would make sure all files in a 1 colour black job would be 1 colour black when working on it. I personally think this is the simplest solution rather then fighting and playing with all sorts of presets and output modes. Convert all supporting files to grayscale, make sure black text is 100% K, then export your PDF for print and you will have a print ready PDF in 1 colour black. You will also have a better idea of what your images will look like when converted to greyscale. When using CMYK the greys can look warmer and fuller because they are using CMYK rather than just K. 

 

Yep, I also set my document to be grey/8 in AP. Despite this when exporting PDF-Xx outputs the file was in CMYK. Is this part of the PDF-Xx spec? If so then why the grey options in the pane? Exporting to PDF1.7 resulted in a single plate output though. 

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50 minutes ago, Lagarto said:

As your document color space is Gray/8, the problem might be "illusory" in a sense that it is caused by wrong output intent included (inadvertentently) when using PDF/X based exports. This confuses Adobe Acrobat, but could well cause problems also when ripping the content so that images get on four plates. This seems to affect grayscale images that have a grayscale color profile (like Dotgain 15% in my examples) embedded.

EDIT: I just ran another test with the exactly same document but after having switched multiple times color modes between CMYK/8, RGB/8 and Gray/8, and now suddenly exporting with default PDF/X1, PDF/X3 and PDF/X4 methods from a document the color mode that is currently Gray/8 (with the same D50 default profile) produces PDFs that still have the "U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2" color intent, but now show mere K values for all four test gray images in Adobe Acrobat Pro. Affinity apps remember the previous color mode when switching between RGB and CMYK color modes so the change might be related to this, but this is truly confusing. 

graytest_gray8_pdf3_default.pdf 459.89 kB · 1 download

More than just confusing. It's problematic! Thanks for your help clarifying all this.

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4 hours ago, Lagarto said:

"U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) V2" while I have ISO Coated V2 (ECI) as my Affinity CMYK default, so I do not know where Affinity Publisher gets this.

That is meanwhile a long and therefore sad story. – When reporting this issue (though in a different situation) in 2018 I got the answer:

On 11/27/2018 at 11:37 AM, Chris_K said:

Part of the X4 spec is it has to be in CMYK and U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2 is the default CMYK profile.

At that time I often noticed this unwanted "default" profile "U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2" also in placed resources, linked or embedded in APub, which I had opened inside APub ("Edit image" button) to check their document's color space – which appeared different if I opened the files by their own (not as placed resources). – This year, a few weeks ago, I got a series of APub crashes, in both v183 and v184 beta, when I tried to check some placed resources document's color space this way. Today it appears to work, and also this "default" profile doesn't occur there. – But PDF export, especially with some specific requirements, still can be a Box of Pandora in Affinity.

Unfortunately the mentioned thread wasn't answered any further.

 

 

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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13 minutes ago, Lagarto said:

a prepress tool like Adobe Acrobat Pro is a vital utility when working with Affinity apps.

Damn right

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39 minutes ago, adrianlambert said:

Yep, I also set my document to be grey/8 in AP. Despite this when exporting PDF-Xx outputs the file was in CMYK. Is this part of the PDF-Xx spec? If so then why the grey options in the pane? Exporting to PDF1.7 resulted in a single plate output though. 

I really think this is getting overly complicated for something very simple.

If all your artwork is 1 colour black already, just leave the document colour mode in CMYK. I am not sure if there are issues with the colour profiles Affinity uses or what, but it should never be this complicated. Really all there should be is CMYK, RGB and Spot. Leave the document colour mode as CMYK, when you export as a PDF you will get a 1 colour black (grey tints

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  • 1 month later...
12 minutes ago, fiëé said:

Color management is difficult, but with Affinity apps it’s impossible.

True, and currently true. Affinity will have to bring color management and pre-press tools to a higher level in future releases if they want more of the professional market for work headed to printers.

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1 hour ago, fiëé said:

Color management is difficult, but with Affinity apps it’s impossible.

So far I had no problems with Affinity's color management. But I also know that D50 describes light and not printing conditions.
Once again, D50 is a monitor profile.

Thanks to DeepL.

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