Best file format for book illustrator's illustrations

[AFY7]

My client is writing a children's book and will use graphics supplied by a professional illustrator.

What is the best file format for the illustrator to use to send us the illustrations for use in Affinity Publisher?

[thomaso]

Do I understand right that the illustrations are created analog (non-digital) and finished, so the illustrations do not need to become modified once you received them? – In this case JPG in RGB, high resolution and high compression quality will be an effective format. If you or the illustrator prefer a lossless file compression type than TIF with ZIP or LZW compression would be an according file format.

While writing I wonder whether one of you is aware about properties of digital image files already, because, if the illustrator will scan the illustrations without knowing the scanning process than the file format is not the most important issue. On the other hand if one of you is experienced with digital images, or the scan process at least, then the question for a "best" file type wouldn't occur in my opinion.

[AFY7]

thomaso,

Thanks for your reply. My client is in charge of finding an illustrator. I have been assuming that the illustrations would be physical drawings (non-digital) that would have to be photographed. So, I think you have answered my question.

What would you recommend if the illustrations are digital, like .svg? How should they be exported?

I just want to make sure my client hires a qualified illustrator, someone with experience in preparing files I can import successfully into the book interior.

[thomaso]

I think the choice of illustrator should not depend on their digital skills at all. If there are none or not enough, the physical papers can be digitized by a corresponding service provider. I would recommend not to photograph the pictures since this either will require a technical equipment (high quality lens, camera and additional lights) or will result in low quality image files. Scanning the images would be the preferred method to digitize them.

In case the images are created digitally then the illustrator will know a fitting exchange format. Then you should know what you can handle in APub. However, as long you don't need to modify a digital illustration the same formats as above will be fine. By the way SVG is quite a special and seldom format and not easy to handle, so you should avoid to get such files.

Possibly you first let the author choose an illustrator which fits to the stories. Then, I am sure, you will find a way to get the best of the illustrations. Maybe then you will ask here again with new or similar questions, or maybe the illustrator has his/her own way and an experienced workflow already. Consider that the illustrations will be published and seen, whereas their reproduction technique hopefully will not be visible in the final result. From this perspective these questions should be not relevant at the moment.

[AFY7]

thomaso,

Excellent advice! I am in the initial planning stage with this book interior. Your comments are very helpful!

I did a book interior for this client last year. It had many small black-and-white line drawings that the artist scanned as .tif files. For this new book, the art will be much larger, more sophisticated, and created by a professional illustrator.

Thanks. Stay safe in Cologne!

[thomaso]

> small black-and-white line drawings

This reminds me to widen the options I had limited before. The illustrations don't have to be either/or analog or digital but also can be a combination of various techniques. For instance paper drawings + digitally edited, or 3-dimensional, physical objects. So even photography can be an appropriate choice for reproduction, then with a special focus on the light, its color, intensity, direction, shadows and reflections. For instance...

      

Again also here you could prefer using JPG or TIF as file format.

A different file type may be useful only if the illustrator or author want's you to edit the illustrations in any way, like changing color (e.g. white balance if photographed), or (re)moving or scaling objects in an open file format (e.g. .afdesign). One last note: though PDF is a common exchange format you should not get the illustrations as PDF: it has disadvantages for your layout process since it is a rather a container than a file format, it gives you less direct access to the containing image's properties. If it contains a bunch of pages with illustrations it would be even more cumbersome for your layout – and actually not necessary, because a PDF contains images which always have a separate original file.

[John Rostron]

@AFY7, You do not say whether the illustrations are to be vector format or not. If they are in vector format, then pdf or svg would be a better choice. You need to ensure that if the illustrator is using Adobe Illustrator then they do not supply a pure .ai file. The exported file needs to include the pdf stream. 

If the illustrations are not vector than the suggestions made above would apply.

I work as a consultant for a children's book publisher and have to assess many illustrations in many different formats for accuracy and appropriateness.

John

[wonderings]

18 minutes ago, John Rostron said:

@AFY7, You do not say whether the illustrations are to be vector format or not. If they are in vector format, then pdf or svg would be a better choice. You need to ensure that if the illustrator is using Adobe Illustrator then they do not supply a pure .ai file. The exported file needs to include the pdf stream. 

If the illustrations are not vector than the suggestions made above would apply.

I work as a consultant for a children's book publisher and have to assess many illustrations in many different formats for accuracy and appropriateness.

John

+1 Keep it vector if the original file is vector, you suffer no image degradation that way.

Also you do not mention, but is this book for print or digital only? If for print I would want it CMYK from the illustrator so they are happy with the colour. If that does not matter you can convert on your own, but I would recommend converting to CMYK before sending it out to print to avoid a shock of colour shift when the printer converts it. 

[thomaso]

1 hour ago, John Rostron said:

If they are in vector format, then pdf or svg would be a better choice.

Advantage: the images can get scaled in the layout without loss. Then EPS may be a choice, too.
Disadvantage: PDF and SVG require a different slightly more complex handling in the layout
Conclusion: Since for print the final result will get rasterized anyway it can be easier and reasonable to use high resolution raster image formats for the layout already. In case you need a certain detail increased you can require this as a separate image file form the illustrator.

55 minutes ago, wonderings said:

If for print I would want it CMYK from the illustrator so they are happy with the colour.

Disadvantage: the image colors may become converted several times: 1. by the illustrator, 2. by your document's color profile, 3. by the printer profile. That way the illustrator may even get disappointed by the final result, in particular with the initial appearance in mind.
Conclusion: RGB files can be fine. Anyway before final print a proof of the images is recommended to ensure their colors will be printed as wanted/expected. For this you can fill a page with just the images, even if not placed in exactly their final size they will show their final colors this way.

[wonderings]

1 minute ago, thomaso said:

Advantage: the images can get scaled in the layout without loss. Then EPS may be a choice, too.
Disadvantage: PDF and SVG require a different slightly more complex handling in the layout
Conclusion: Since for print the final result will get rasterized anyway it can be easier and reasonable to use high resolution raster image formats for the layout already. In case you need a certain detail increased you can require this as a separate image file form the illustrator.

Disadvantage: the image colors may become converted several times: 1. by the illustrator, 2. by your document's color profile, 3. by the printer profile. That way the illustrator may even get disappointed by the final result, in particular with the initial appearance in mind.
Conclusion: RGB files can be fine. Anyway before final print a proof of the images is recommended to ensure their colors will be printed as wanted/expected. For this you can fill a page with just the images, even if not placed in exactly their final size they will show their final colors this way.

Unless you are using an ancient RIP you will have no issues with complex vectors and same goes for page layout software. It takes a lot to slow down Indesign with a complex vector. I would still rather keep it native rather than rasterize. Let the RIP handle this, no need to add more steps in prepping your file. I work with native .ai files in Indesign all the time, I don't bother with .eps or .svg as it is not necessary.

The CMYK may be converted a few times if you convert to CMYK and the print shop has their own profile, the difference is there will not be a massive colour shift and what you see in CMYK is doable and achievable. What you see in RGB is not always achievable in CMYK so you may not know that till you get CMYK proofs and then you are need to scramble to fix your file to get it to a place where you are happy with the colour. Why not do that from the start? Much more efficient and will speed up production time from proof to print. Not sure why you would want to work in a colour format that is going to have to be converted to CMYK anyways. 

 

[thomaso]

1 hour ago, wonderings said:

Why not do that from the start? (...) Not sure why you would want to work in a colour format that is going to have to be converted to CMYK anyways. 

Because the start of any digitized illustration is always RGB. Consider that both cameras and scanners need to convert a subtractive color (light, color on paper) into their additive RGB space. So, since for print, this technically defined starting color space will be converted to the smaller cmyk space, you can argue to convert as soon as possible (with the disadvantage of possibly several conversions) or you can prefer to do the rgb > cmyk conversion as late as necessary, means at the end, in the prepress process.

In case of digital illustrations it is, of cause, up to the illustrators skills and knowledge not at all to use RGB defined colors but simply apply CMYK only, to make them appear in print as expected – entirely regardless of their output color space for use in the layout document.

Note that here the OP's task might not include to create objects and to assign colors to them but just to place ready-made images in the layout document.

1 hour ago, wonderings said:

Much more efficient and will speed up production time from proof to print.

In which way? If you consider that CMYK files have one more color channel than RGB files you will notice that their file size is ~ 25% larger, which rather is an additional demand for the layout app than a speed or time saver. If you mean explicitly "time from proof to print" then be aware that the conversion happens before proof already, so the proof > print procedure will be cmyk anyway, and again regardless of the image's color space in the layout document.

[Wosven]

When asking for illustrations, we'd rather have vectors, and if possible original file, so we can correct colour problems more easily than people not knowing about profile or PPP, as it can happen.
Original files you can modify (as correcting an RGB colour) or reuse later are important, since it's possible you'll reprint the book in few years, and the specifications can change. For example, long ago, resolution was lower than today, and it's important to be able to export to higher definition or have vector files you can use at larger size. Or you'll have a lot of work to do to improve the visuals.

When illustrators sell illustrations already done for other books, it happens also that they export themself as raster to the needed page format. They can also only provide this, but as said earlier, vectors/modifiable files are safer.

[wonderings]

1 hour ago, thomaso said:

Because the start of any digitized illustration is always RGB. Consider that both cameras and scanners need to convert a subtractive color (light, color on paper) into their additive RGB space. So, since for print, this technically defined starting color space will be converted to the smaller cmyk space, you can argue to convert as soon as possible (with the disadvantage of possibly several conversions) or you can prefer to do the rgb > cmyk conversion as late as necessary, means at the end, in the prepress process.

In case of digital illustrations it is, of cause, up to the illustrators skills and knowledge not at all to use RGB defined colors but simply apply CMYK only, to make them appear in print as expected – entirely regardless of their output color space for use in the layout document.

Note that here the OP's task might not include to create objects and to assign colors to them but just to place ready-made images in the layout document.

In which way? If you consider that CMYK files have one more color channel than RGB files you will notice that their file size is ~ 25% larger, which rather is an additional demand for the layout app than a speed or time saver. If you mean explicitly "time from proof to print" then be aware that the conversion happens before proof already, so the proof > print procedure will be cmyk anyway, and again regardless of the image's color space in the layout document.

And you should start with the end result in mind. If the OP is intending this book for print why would you not start from CMYK in the beginning? It is going to be done eventually and you will save the shock when the vibrant blue is no longer so vibrant, even on a screen, when converted to CMYK.

I really don't think speed is an issue here, if your computer is handling RGB faster then CMYK then I would suggest you have an old computer that is not capable of modern tasks with ease. I notice zero performance increase or decrease based on a file being RGB or CMYK. I have received catalogues, 350 + pages that get placed in Indesign. Designer had all their pictures RGB. It does not get any slower when I have converted to CMYK.

What I mean about time from proof to print is that if you start out with the right colour mode you are less likely to need or want to adjust the colour as you have already been working in CMYK. If you get the proof and you are again shocked that your vibrant blue is no longer vibrant you are not stopped to adjust and fix or have them adjust and fix and give you another proof. If you understand the limitations of CMYK compared to RGB colours from the beginning you are in a better position to know what colours are achievable. 

[thomaso]

25 minutes ago, Wosven said:

vectors/modifiable files are safer.

"Safe" might mislead, especially in this thread. Since the OP asks for "the best file format for the illustrator" it seems rather obvious that 'open', modifiable file formats may more confuse by their larger editing options, which one can feel as un-safe this way.

31 minutes ago, Wosven said:

it's possible you'll reprint the book in few years, and the specifications can change.

The export file for print will be quite likely PDF, which may contain both vector and rasterized image data. For a later reprint this file could be used.

In case you assume PDF would become unreadable in years I'd say the chance that any open, native vector format becomes affected from technological progress is quite larger. As for instance the already died native formats of PageMaker (.pm), Freehand (.fh), Flash (.swf), ... or one day, maybe even the formats of the Serif Plus application series are affected. Whereas common raster image file formats seem to be much less becoming obsolete and unreadable. (actually I don't know any).

[thomaso]

2 minutes ago, wonderings said:

And you should start with the end result in mind. If the OP is intending this book for print why would you not start from CMYK in the beginning? It is going to be done eventually and you will save the shock when the vibrant blue is no longer so vibrant, even on a screen, when converted to CMYK.

As I said before, as soon it gets digitized it is RGB first. So RGB is the start, simply by technical concerns. And, also as answered already, an early CMYK conversion might require additional, different CMYK conversions. These can cause a color shift which will not happen without these various conversions.

There will not be such a "vibrant", not printable blue in this workflow. Where should it come from? If the illustrations get scanned properly and a 'digital' illustrator does define colors properly then no unprintable color will occur on the way in the layout. On the other hand, theoretically, the illustrator might use flourescent colors or reflecting, metallic material in their illustrations created physically on paper – also then it would be no good to limit the color space at the beginning of the process from RGB to CMYK.

So far about the delivered illustration files. The layout document and its export color space are a different subject (and not asked in this thread). A PDF export in CMYK will show quite soon where colors may not please the illustrator or author. This is early enough to adjust them. But if the initial files got converted already then also this step suffers.

[Wosven]

13 minutes ago, thomaso said:

"Safe" might mislead, especially in this thread. Since the OP asks for "the best file format for the illustrator" it seems rather obvious that 'open', modifiable file formats may more confuse by their larger editing options, which one can feel as un-safe this way.

It should be safe for the editor too, there's too many files I need to correct for different reasons to give this answer.

If the project take enough time and errors are corrected smoothly, and not on the dead line, it should be fine. Some of them can be minor and more easily and fastly corrected by the one doing the layout, since usually he/she's use to check and correct files.

16 minutes ago, thomaso said:

The export file for print will be quite likely PDF, which may contain both vector and rasterized image data. For a later reprint this file could be used.

If you don't need to do modifications or modernisation to the content. It's not always reprinting as the last edition. Sometimes, even a small decade can date a book or document, you should slighty modify it today before reprinting. Unless it was a hit and best seller perfect from the start…

I wouldn't advise to work on PDF when needing to modify before printing a document. If the work was correctly archived, it shouldn't be a problem.

24 minutes ago, thomaso said:

As for instance the already died native formats of PageMaker (.pm), Freehand (.fh), Flash (.swf), ... or one day, maybe even the formats of the Serif Plus application series are affected. Whereas common raster image file formats seem to be much less becoming obsolete and unreadable.

It's your view. Now, I give mine, and I've got coworker that work with old files since some publications for children are nearly a century old. They need to vectorize old illustrations to be able to use them. I'm sure next generations will be happier to use more modern files, than doing this. Each time a format or an app "die", you need to check your archives and convert the files in a newer format (at least the important ones, old logo can be forgotten).

We're in a modern world, it's nice not to do the same errors as in the past, when we only kept poor PDF of the documents we made, and need to use OCR to get back texts or images when needing to reprint today.

[Dazmondo77]

4 hours ago, wonderings said:

image colors may become converted several times: 1. by the illustrator, 2. by your document's color profile, 3. by the printer profile.

I begin my children's book Illustration projects by finding out the the print service providers CMYK colour profile (which for the past 3 books has been ISO coated v2 300%) then work from the off in CMYK, in my experience it's always worked out great, I've always felt a little uncomfortable working in RGB with all the colour shift stuff, for me working solely in CMYK for print projects just keeps things simple + have access to pretty good CMYK proofing 

[wonderings]

56 minutes ago, Dazmondo77 said:

I begin my children's book Illustration projects by finding out the the print service providers CMYK colour profile (which for the past 3 books has been ISO coated v2 300%) then work from the off in CMYK, in my experience it's always worked out great, I've always felt a little uncomfortable working in RGB with all the colour shift stuff, for me working solely in CMYK for print projects just keeps things simple + have access to pretty good CMYK proofing 

This is the way to do it in my opinion. It makes zero sense to me to set up anything in RGB only to have it converted in the end to CMYK. There is a ton of stuff that can go wrong with complex vectors that are RGB and converted to CMYK, your way gets rid of that in the beginning. By the time you are ready to submit your job there is very little you need to worry about. 

[Fixx]

23 hours ago, thomaso said:

Conclusion: Since for print the final result will get rasterized anyway it can be easier and reasonable to use high resolution raster image formats for the layout already. In case you need a certain detail increased you can require this as a separate image file form the illustrator.

There is a difference if art is rasterized to device pixels by RIP or if it is rasterized to pixel image by user. Former is higher quality. Of course, many times reader will not notice any difference and lower quality is ok.

[thomaso]

19 hours ago, wonderings said:

It makes zero sense to me to set up anything in RGB only to have it converted in the end to CMYK. There is a ton of stuff that can go wrong with complex vectors that are RGB and converted to CMYK, your way gets rid of that in the beginning. By the time you are ready to submit your job there is very little you need to worry about. 

Once more: in the beginning all scanned or photographed illustrations are always RGB. There is no way to avoid RGB as the starting color space for them.

That means for the OP and the image resources: There is no harm if the color space of the placed image files is maintained as RGB – while the APub document, where this resources get placed, is set to CMYK. This way you ...

1.) avoid a multiple conversion for the image files,
2.) prevent any occurrence of non-printable colors in the layout document and in its output files, too,
3.) have smaller image file sizes on your disk.
4.) "By the time you are ready to submit your job there is very little you need to worry about".

[Dazmondo77]

3 hours ago, thomaso said:

Once more: in the beginning all scanned or photographed illustrations are always RGB.

The high end scanners I've used in the past, Crossfield Magnascan drum and Dainipon Screen Cezanne SRA3 flatbed, read RGB but allow all pre scan colour correction in CMYK before scanning the final CMYK scan to an image server, although things may be different now?

[wonderings]

On 7/11/2020 at 9:25 AM, thomaso said:

Once more: in the beginning all scanned or photographed illustrations are always RGB. There is no way to avoid RGB as the starting color space for them.

That means for the OP and the image resources: There is no harm if the color space of the placed image files is maintained as RGB – while the APub document, where this resources get placed, is set to CMYK. This way you ...

1.) avoid a multiple conversion for the image files,
2.) prevent any occurrence of non-printable colors in the layout document and in its output files, too,
3.) have smaller image file sizes on your disk.
4.) "By the time you are ready to submit your job there is very little you need to worry about".

Yes I think we all get that it is originally scanned in RGB. You convert before you start doing anything else is the point I have tried to make. When a client sends me files first thing I do is check the colour space, do they have spots, pantones, RGB. I think convert based on the end result. If it is a 2 colour job I make the changes to be 2 pantones or 1 + k. Same goes if the end result will be a CMYK job. I convert all the RGB and pantone images to CMYK and then move on from there. 

The harm to the colour space is having colours that do not match even remotely to what you were looking at in the first place. Not as big an issue if you are dealing with pictures, but if you are dealing with created vector work that colours selected might not translate well to CMYK. So you have been happy with everything you have seen on your screen and then you get a PDF proof from the printer and are all confused why those blues are just not the same blue as what you were looking at the entire setup time. A CMYK to CMYK conversion is not going to have any radical changes changes whereas RGB to CMYK can have massive changes. Not all the time, but enough times to warrant looking into it before scratching your head at proof time and needing to go back to your files and adjust the colour to send a new PDF to the printer and then wait for another PDF proof. 

Does anyone really care about smaller file sizes anymore? Hard drives are in the terabytes now, I know I am not concerned with how big the file is and it not something that enters my mind at all when it comes to working on a project.

 

 

 

 

[thomaso]

56 minutes ago, wonderings said:

The harm to the colour space is having colours that do not match even remotely to what you were looking at in the first place. Not as big an issue if you are dealing with pictures, but if you are dealing with created vector work that colours selected might not translate well to CMYK. (...) you get a PDF proof from the printer and are all confused why those blues are just not the same blue as what you were looking at the entire setup time.

Again: if the layout document is set to CMYK those unprintable or unexpected colours (e.g. 'blues') will not occur, neither on screen nor in a proof. They get converted temporarily into the current working space of the layout file, but with the advantage not to save any conversion to those original resource files and manipulate them this way without need.