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Affinity Designer issue with colors from scan


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I have Affinity photo 1.8.3 on macbook pro, MAC OS 10.15.4.

my scanner is Plustek 8200i. My scanner application is Vuescan 9 x64 (9.7.25).

the colors in the image showing on the scan preview in vue scan are drastically differents from the colors showing when I open the scan in Affinity Photo (images attached)
 
The color profiles settings in vuescan are showing in the vuescan screenshots and I have also a screenshot of the color preferences in Affinity Photo.
 
Could you please help as I am pulling my hair over this issue.

 

Screen_Shot_2020-06-05_at_17_21_46.png

Screen_Shot_2020-06-05_at_17_22_06.png

Screen_Shot_2020-06-05_at_17_31_02.png

Screen_Shot_2020-06-05_at_17_23_09.png

Screen Shot 2020-06-05 at 17.25.24.png

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Can you attach the .tiff file that VueScan created?

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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19 minutes ago, serge said:

Thanks. But you seem to have told VueScan to produce TIFF output. Why do you have a .dng file? What happened to the .tiff file that I would have expected VueScan to produce?

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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Just now, serge said:

You have to scan to a tiff file ?

I don't know that you have to scan to TIFF, but from your screenshots of the VueScan configuration you seem to have told it to produce TIFF. So I'm surprised that you got DNG, instead.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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Just now, serge said:

I thought that with a dng file there would be more data recorded.

Not necessarily. If you can tell VueScan to produce TIFF, please try that and see if you like the results better.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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I would suggest turning that option off, and trying it with a standard TIFF file.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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2 hours ago, Nazario said:

Im seeing a difference in Bitrate. Vuescan has 48bit and Affinity shows it at 32bit i.e. less information equals less colour range. Could that be it?

The 48-bit file contains 16 bits per RGB channel. This has always worked for me using VueScan on a Nikon scanner.

I would agree that the OP needs to save the file as a straight tiff. Saving as tiff-dng is a type of raw, but one that Affinity does not understand.

John

Windows 10, Affinity Photo 1.10.5 Designer 1.10.5 and Publisher 1.10.5 (mainly Photo), now ex-Adobe CC

CPU: AMD A6-3670. RAM: 16 GB DDR3 @ 666MHz, Graphics: 2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 630

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18 minutes ago, John Rostron said:

Saving as tiff-dng is a type of raw, but one that Affinity does not understand.

Well that seems to be a tiff file which is then wrapped inside a DNG file (aka enclosed in a DNG) and if Affinity wouldn't be able to handle it, it wouldn't show it up at all.

☛ Affinity Designer 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 ◆ OSX El Capitan
☛ Affinity V2.3 apps ◆ MacOS Sonoma 14.2 ◆ iPad OS 17.2

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It seems AP is confused by interpreting this .dng white balance: When I first activate White Balance in Develop mode its slider positions and values seem weird & the image appearance, too. When I now just click (not move!) the upper slider & set the lower to 0 the image looks as expected. – I am not experienced with AP's Develop Mode but this White Balance behavior feels quite buggy to me.

I wonder whether vuescan was writing the dng format correctly, since both macOS quicklook and Preview.app can't open it (but usually do dng). Nevertheless the good old Quicktime 7 shows the .dng in colors as expected but in low res only, may be it opens a containing preview image separate from the image data. QT7 says it used an "Apple TIFF Decompressor". But in case it contains a preview, why can't quicklook show the preview but hangs with the beachball?

802612659_ectachromescantifdng-QT7.jpg.df6be42347206781ca1f674eeeefde93.jpg  236102157_ectachromescantifdng-quicklook.jpg.730d470f5180fecdb63ee04ab94eb81a.jpg


Also another old app shows the colors as expected but it doesn't recognize or detect a color profile.
When I opened the .dng in AP I got the warning pop up that it was converted to my AP working profile ProPhoto RGB, though according to your vuescan screenshot ProPhoto RGB would already have been the output profile for the scan, right?

1920627825_ectachromescantifdng-noprofile.jpg.7efae1ab3de1e3924d553afc61ceb917.jpg

 

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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The way an old ACR version treat that as default ...

acr.jpg.5f39e69a994a0368a94a02b1734414fe.jpg

☛ Affinity Designer 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 ◆ OSX El Capitan
☛ Affinity V2.3 apps ◆ MacOS Sonoma 14.2 ◆ iPad OS 17.2

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3 hours ago, v_kyr said:
4 hours ago, John Rostron said:

Saving as tiff-dng is a type of raw, but one that Affinity does not understand.

Well that seems to be a tiff file which is then wrapped inside a DNG file

Isn't a DNG by its specification always a kind of TIFF ("TIFF/EP", 'Electronic Photography'), which may contain raw data but doesn't have to?
https://www.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/products/photoshop/pdfs/dng_spec_1.4.0.0.pdf
 

2 hours ago, serge said:

Scanning to a tiff file does indeed render the colors rights.

Would you mind to upload your TIFF as well? I'd like to inspect what's different.
 

8 hours ago, serge said:

I thought that with a dng file there would be more data recorded.

Hardly. There are two possible data types within a DNG: raw vs. rgb. I assume the VueScan .dng contains rgb data inside its dng wrapper format. Possibly vuescan doesn't have access to "record" true raw data at all but only offers various options to "save" its recorded data differently. But the selected color profile might help to work on your scanned image within a larger space, e.g. when using ProPhoto instead of sRGB as long as possible or necessary.

By the way: VueScan's DNG & White Balance seems to have caused this recent discussion:
https://www.lightroomqueen.com/community/threads/white-balance-color-space-questions-on-vuescan-dng-tiff-files.40317/

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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On 6/6/2020 at 4:38 AM, thomaso said:

Isn't a DNG by its specification always a kind of TIFF ("TIFF/EP", 'Electronic Photography'), which may contain raw data but doesn't have to?

The DNG format is based on the TIFF 6 file format, so DNG is an extension of the TIFF 6.0 format, which is compatible with the TIFF-EP standard. It is possible (but not required) for a DNG file to simultaneously comply with both the Digital Negative specification and the TIFF-EP standard.

VueScan can save as "TIFF DNG" and "Raw DNG (Pro edition)" ... aka:

Quote

Output | TIFF DNG format This specifies whether to write TIFF files in DNG (Digital Negative) format. This allows VueScan's TIFF files to be read by the Adobe Camera Raw plugin or other programs that read DNG files.

Output | Raw DNG format (Professional Edition only) This specifies whether to write raw files in DNG (Digital Negative) format. This allows VueScan's raw files to be read by the Adobe Camera Raw plugin or other programs that read DNG files.

Output | Raw file (Professional Edition only) This enables writing raw data from the scanner to a TIFF file.
...
Raw files are always stored as TIFF files and can therefore be examined in image viewing and editing programs.  Note, however that the resolution of raw files (as specified inOutput | Raw file type(p. 92)) may be greater than some programs can read. - The image gamma value is 1.0 when there are two bytes (16-bits) per sample, and 2.2 when there is one byte (8-bits) per sample. Raw files saved with gamma 1.0 will look dark, but this is normal.
...

 

☛ Affinity Designer 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 ◆ OSX El Capitan
☛ Affinity V2.3 apps ◆ MacOS Sonoma 14.2 ◆ iPad OS 17.2

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5 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

VueScan can save as "TIFF DNG" and "Raw DNG (Pro edition)"

Interesting, I didn't know that VueScan even saves Raw data.

@serge, did you also try whether AP handles the colors/white balance in your scan saved as VueScan "Raw DNG" more as expected than the "TIFF DNG" (in particular since you "thought that with a dng file there would be more data recorded.")?

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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14 hours ago, serge said:

I think that one looks much more like your scan, and is probably the format you should use. However, if your version of VueScan offers pure Raw DNG support, then thomaso's idea of trying that is also a good one.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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18 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

I think that one looks much more like your scan,

... whereas the uploaded .tif appears to be saved (modified?) by APhoto already: in its metadata it says

History Software Agent  :  Affinity Photo (Mar 31 2020)
History When :

2020:06:05 19:17:43+01:00

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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4 minutes ago, thomaso said:

... whereas the uploaded .tif appears to be saved (modified?) by APhoto already: in its metadata it says

History Software Agent  :  Affinity Photo (Mar 31 2020)
History When :

2020:06:05 19:17:43+01:00

Interesting. Thanks; I didn't think to check the metadata.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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2 hours ago, thomaso said:

... whereas the uploaded .tif appears to be saved (modified?) by APhoto already: in its metadata it says

History Software Agent  :  Affinity Photo (Mar 31 2020)
History When :

2020:06:05 19:17:43+01:00

Yes it was, but it was only to reduce the file size.

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