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[Multi] Undo & Redo icons


Rik

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Thanks for your reply, MattP and MEB.

 

MattP: Undo and Redo does exist in OS X. Please take a look at Microsoft Word.

I was trying to paste an image here, but it seems that this forim does not allow that.

 

MEB: I can see the history panel you mention. But, by clicking on an undo or a redo button, you can quickly go back to a desired point.

That's my point! :)

 

The whole thing about any good software, is when a user can be comfortable in what he/she is trying to do, and how they're doing it.

 

And it's a suggestion I think would be a good addition.

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I don't think you can really count Microsoft Word as an example - it's very much not Mac since it is a Windows port.  We are trying to follow Mac only software for our UI design.

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May I respectfully say that, that's a lot of the problem with Mac and Mac related things.

It's either the 'Mac way' or 'No way'.

 

A good option should not be ignored, just because of the OS being used.

 

So, we know that 'undo' and 'redo' buttons can be added, but we choose not to, because we are on a Mac???

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Personally, I would never use an undo or redo button, I always use short keys. I would rather the screen space is used for something more useful.

 

As for making things the Mac way, a lot of Mac users adopted a Mac over a Windows box for the way it looks and feels. Ignoring the general way that apps considered Mac standard are put together won't do us any favours overall. If we were doing a Windows app, we'd make it conform to windows standard UI. That said, the Mac world is more discerning/critical about these details.

SerifLabs team - Affinity Developer
  • Software engineer  -  Photographer  -  Guitarist  -  Philosopher
  • iMac 27" Retina 5K (Late 2015), 4.0GHz i7, AMD Radeon R9 M395
  • MacBook (Early 2015), 1.3GHz Core M, Intel HD 5300
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I think this is one of the fundamental diferences between Windows and OS X Rik. Just look at the Office for example. It becomes the app it is today with tones of tabs and icons because they want to offer all the features and several options to keep everyone happy. It's the same with Windows OS itself. They are trying to please everyone, and with that, they go forward and backward trying to give answers to all criticism they received. And now we have a Windows interface that's a small mess of mobile/tablet concepts mixed with traditional desktop references, with and without start buttons and re-adaptations and a never ending of changes that just show how lost Microsoft is regarding the direction they should follow.

 

The Mac platform in general is much more criterious about their design choices. They avoid superfluous stuff/features and keep the apps as much focused and clean as they can both in terms of UI and UX. They care about the details. They all almost update their apps as soon as a new version of the OS is out. Compare that with Windows, that try to keep compatibility with legacy software for extended periods of time (corporations and businesses have some responsibility here too but even so). It's a complete different dynamic and Apple never has been so influential and admired as it is today. They definitely should be doing something right no?

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Many thanks for your reply, Miguel.

I understand and accept what you say.

 

Clutter and clarity are things to be considered for sure.

 

Why not allow the tools to be personalised by the user. As other software does.

The functions clearly exist, and the programme has to react to the press of the shortcut keys.

 

Anyway. I shall draw a close to this discussion, so as not to waste anyone's time.

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  • 7 months later...

Sorry, Rik, but I'll have to agree with Ben, MEB, and MattP here.

 

If you were to go back to the 1980s (you could take the trip via YouTube if you don't have the DeLorean) and watch some old Apple commercials you'd notice they scream, "easy!"  The difference between the Macintosh user guide pamphlet and the IBM user guide novel is especially telling.

 

Your comment about the Mac being Apple's-way-or-the-highway is quite apt, and it's by design: Apple publishes and maintain a Human Interface Guide, a single set of standard conventions to ensure Mac programs look and feel like Mac programs.  The last time I checked, the equivalent Microsoft document to Apple's HIG went about as far as "this is what a button looks like, and when you click it, it makes the program do something."

 

Here's a great example of the real difference between platforms: let's say you want to use an online image as a layer in AD.  (If you try to do it the Windows way) you'll right-click the image, save it, then go back to AD, click File, click Open, navigate to the Downloads folder, open the image, select all, copy to clipboard, switch to the document where you wanted it in the first place, then paste.  Whew!

 

But on the Mac, you can simply drag an image directly from Safari into AD, and it will be imported as a layer.

 

That's because according to Apple’s HIG, drag and drop is for moving anything, anywhere, and if it makes sense for the thing you drag to go where you drop it, the Mac should figure it out for you.  It's astounding how much easier to learn and more productive Apple makes the Mac, just by making basic skills work everywhere.

 

So I think it’s a losing proposition to pit a pair of measly undo-redo buttons against the kind of productivity you can get from your Mac if you'll simply let go of the Windows crap and learn and leverage the Mac conventions.

 

Of course, that's just my 2¢.

 

—Russ Johnson

Murfreesboro, Tenn.

Edited by AJBlue98

—Russ Jonson

Still and video design, logos, branding, and more 

RussDoes.com

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  • 1 year later...

Why not put these icons Undo Redo in the customised Tools Barr ?

 

So people who don't want them don't add them! :)

 

Et voilà! Everybody are joyful! ;)

 

post-33714-0-50313500-1481476270_thumb.jpg

 

Old people prefer that against these damned shortcuts! :rolleyes:

 

Please add them ! When you will arrive to heavens that will be fine too! ^_^

Is beautiful that please without concept!

Speedy Gallery

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Sorry, Rik, but I'll have to agree with Ben, MEB, and MattP here.

 

If you were to go back to the 1980s (you could take the trip via YouTube if you don't have the DeLorean) and watch some old Apple commercials you'd notice they scream, "easy!"  The difference between the Macintosh user guide pamphlet and the IBM user guide novel is especially telling.

 

Your comment about the Mac being Apple's-way-or-the-highway is quite apt, and it's by design: Apple publishes and maintain a Human Interface Guide, a single set of standard conventions to ensure Mac programs look and feel like Mac programs.  The last time I checked, the equivalent Microsoft document to Apple's HIG went about as far as "this is what a button looks like, and when you click it, it makes the program do something."

 

Here's a great example of the real difference between platforms: let's say you want to use an online image as a layer in AD.  (If you try to do it the Windows way) you'll right-click the image, save it, then go back to AD, click File, click Open, navigate to the Downloads folder, open the image, select all, copy to clipboard, switch to the document where you wanted it in the first place, then paste.  Whew!

 

But on the Mac, you can simply drag an image directly from Safari into AD, and it will be imported as a layer.

 

That's because according to Apple’s HIG, drag and drop is for moving anything, anywhere, and if it makes sense for the thing you drag to go where you drop it, the Mac should figure it out for you.  It's astounding how much easier to learn and more productive Apple makes the Mac, just by making basic skills work everywhere.

 

So I think it’s a losing proposition to pit a pair of measly undo-redo buttons against the kind of productivity you can get from your Mac if you'll simply let go of the Windows crap and learn and leverage the Mac conventions.

 

Of course, that's just my 2¢.

 

—Russ Johnson

Murfreesboro, Tenn.

In Windows I right click the image I want from internet an copy, and than paste it in Designer by "File Drop" :) You can do it the complicated way in Window too, if you like...

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Since I use Windows Scetchbook Pro I am very fond of not having a keyboard attached to the screen I am painting on. Screen on icons for undo / redo are present in SketchBook Pro and also in ClipStudio Paint and ArtRage. There are third party add-ons to make screen painting easier using keyboard shortcuts, like RadialMenu, AristPad and ArtPad, for the Win10 tablets. Soon the Surface Dial will arrive...it will help a lot for programs with no Undo / Redo icons. Since Surface Pro runs full software like Photoshop, ClipStudio, Affinity Photo and others, there are sometimes no switch to run in a tablet mode. Photoshop got it and Painter got it. Many other software are hopeless to work with on a tablet. Affinity is OK. But just OK.

 

SketchBook Pro and ArtRage on iPad and other iOS paint programs has the same icons for Undo and Redo.

 

If there were Undo / Redo icons in Designer and Photo I would really welcome it as a Surface Pro artist!

 

(Picture showing the icons in SketchBook Pro, a well designed software to use on both my Surface Pro and on my iPad...)

 

snip_20161211184842.png

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I can see both sides of the argument, but by allowing the user to decide if they want undo / redo buttons to appear in their toolbar panel would keep them happy, and not disturb others who think it would be too unusual.

Why does it have to be one way or the other?

 

Alternatively, if the Macro function was extended, you could create a cmd-Z macro, which would allow one click to undo / redo :)

High-End Photographic Prints

 

 

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I can see both sides of the argument, but by allowing the user to decide if they want undo / redo buttons to appear in their toolbar panel would keep them happy, and not disturb others who think it would be too unusual.

Why does it have to be one way or the other?

 

Alternatively, if the Macro function was extended, you could create a cmd-Z macro, which would allow one click to undo / redo :)

As a long time user, on Windows, of every previous product of Serif's every one of them has had a Undo/Redo button/arrow symbol - so they would certainly not be "too unusual".

For ease and speed they cannot be beaten, certainly much faster than going to Edit or History, or keyboard short cuts for those of us with failing memories.

They are one/two of the tools I have missed the most whilst trying to get to grips with both Affinity products since changing over from DrawPlus and PhotoPlus.

 

Whilst Serif have most certainly put a lot of brilliant effort and hard work into producing two such products as Affinity D & P, for a more 'professional' market than they had previously, they should not forget their older, less professional users, with less professional abilities, or needs, who are still loyal to them and who wish to carry on using their products at a 'lower level'.

With the greatest of respect I would also point out the existence of such non-professional/hobbyist users to those professional users on here to consider when posting some of their suggestions/comments.

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PeanutsA,

You commented my post, so hopefully the last line of your post wasn't aimed at me?

 

I agree exactly with what you just posted - There are users who would love the ease of having an undo / redo tool, AND, there are users who would probably consider it unusual to have undo / redo buttons. It all depends on what apps and OS they are used to using.

I was basically saying - In order to cater for everyone (professionals and unprofessionals alike), it would make sense to offer users the option of either having them or not.

 

Thanks.

High-End Photographic Prints

 

 

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PeanutsA,

You commented my post, so hopefully the last line of your post wasn't aimed at me?

 

I agree exactly with what you just posted - There are users who would love the ease of having an undo / redo tool, AND, there are users who would probably consider it unusual to have undo / redo buttons. It all depends on what apps and OS they are used to using.

I was basically saying - In order to cater for everyone (professionals and unprofessionals alike), it would make sense to offer users the option of either having them or not.

 

Thanks.

No DesignMeister  the last line of my post was certainly not aimed at you, or anybody in particular. It was a plea for the more knowledgeable to be (perhaps) more understanding, in some of their posts, towards the less knowledgeable, of which I obviously am one.

 

We are in complete agreement in users having the option to either have Undo/Redo arrows/buttons or not, dependent upon their preferences, apps, OS, or methods of working.

 

Having used Serif products for so long on Windows where they have always previously been available I could not understand their omission and spent some time looking for the option to add them to the toolbar, much to my disappointment pointlessly :( .

 

Regards.

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Phew, I thought I had unintentionally upset someone :)

Unfortunately, this kind of topic is very subjective. Some people will be all for it, whilst others will be dead against it.

 

 

As a developer, I'm fortunate enough to be able to code my own apps which tap into the APIs of the software I use, allowing me to extend it.

 

For example:

 

I coded my own Digital Assets Manager app, which provides me with one-click access to directories for tutorials, plugins, inspirations; assets such as scanned real media etc. etc.

My app also affords me the ability to create and store RGB and Hexadecimal Triplet Codes in a database, which I can then instantly send to other apps.

 

Anyway, I digress :)

The motto to my story is that if something is not currently possible, "sometimes" there are other ways around it.

High-End Photographic Prints

 

 

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