DIMENSIONS - what to do to get them right

[AnnM]

You wrote I can ask any question , because this forum is ... to ask them. I was searching my problem in this forum but did not find the answer (maybe its my fault).

I have a book 8,5"x11"; I want to change the dimensions to 210x297mm with bleed 3mm, and my printer house says that my netto should be 205x285 (I know - it's its ridiculous)

So I am fighting with my printer house, but still have some problems here...

From the start: i have put 204mmx 291mm - with added bleed 3mm (to get 210x297mm) - but the final  result was much, much bigger. So, i was trying many times to get the brutto.

And there is my question: WHY I need to subtract 15,5 mmx15,5 mm to get the right size - 210mmx297mm???

 

[Old Bruce]

I have no idea what the terms 'netto' or 'brutto' mean, from context I am guessing they are somewhat analogous to 'net' and 'gross' as per weight or income. Some of the following are guesses...

Bleed refers to the bit of paper which will be printed on but cut off. An A4 (210x297) sheet of paper with a bleed of 3 mm means you will print on a larger size piece of paper and trim off the excess to give you the A4 size. If however you have a press which takes an A4 sheet as a maximum size you can't have any bleed area, the ink will spill over off the page and make a mess on the printing press. Then there are parts of the paper sheet which cannot be printed on because of the mechanism which holds the sheet of paper throughout the printing process, I think that this is why your printer wants a much smaller size. They can print on A4 but need to trim to give you an edge to edge image and the front of the sheet needs to held by some sort of grip during the printing.

As to why you get a much larger size when setting up your document I have no idea why that is happening other than suggesting operator error of some sort. You should get a 204 + 3 + 3 = 210 result, where the extra 15 and a half mm is coming from is baffling.

[Fixx]

I do not have direct answer as I feel you are misled... 

but you should prepare your layout with page size as your final product has its page size. Activating bleed and printer's marks add sheet area which dimensions are not adjustable and not really a designers concern. It is printer house's (prepress technician's) job to handle extra area and imposition apps do it very well and automatically.

[AnnM]

22 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

I have no idea what the terms 'netto' or 'brutto' mean, from context I am guessing they are somewhat analogous to 'net' and 'gross' as per weight or income. Some of the following are guesses...

Bleed refers to the bit of paper which will be printed on but cut off. An A4 (210x297) sheet of paper with a bleed of 3 mm means you will print on a larger size piece of paper and trim off the excess to give you the A4 size. If however you have a press which takes an A4 sheet as a maximum size you can't have any bleed area, the ink will spill over off the page and make a mess on the printing press. Then there are parts of the paper sheet which cannot be printed on because of the mechanism which holds the sheet of paper throughout the printing process, I think that this is why your printer wants a much smaller size. They can print on A4 but need to trim to give you an edge to edge image and the front of the sheet needs to held by some sort of grip during the printing.

As to why you get a much larger size when setting up your document I have no idea why that is happening other than suggesting operator error of some sort. You should get a 204 + 3 + 3 = 210 result, where the extra 15 and a half mm is coming from is baffling.

Yes gross and net (i was writting too fast without thinking of what i am writting ). This is not my first book so I know what bleed means (I hope so haha), but this  is the first time I am trying to work with Apub. Do not know why too; but this is exactly 15,5 mm.... Thank You for answering!. I will check with other dimensions if its still needed to deduct 15,5mm....

[AnnM]

7 hours ago, Fixx said:

I do not have direct answer as I feel you are misled... 

but you should prepare your layout with page size as your final product has its page size. Activating bleed and printer's marks add sheet area which dimensions are not adjustable and not really a designers concern. It is printer house's (prepress technician's) job to handle extra area and imposition apps do it very well and automatically.

Thank You. Here in Poland Printer House is the Boss... if you want something from them you need to pay extra. They have their rules and you should obey them. I will try to make a print screen and maybe it will give you all any idea about what i am writting ; Thank you all for your time spare on me ..