Leading seems super broken, often won't change when I try to set something different

[thomaso]

> if you Group them then the text will scale along with graphics.

Bruce, it already did scale for the OP, in both AD and APub. – His concern was the 'jumping' leading occurrence when drag-scaling, as illustrated in his video above and named as "leading ... super broken" in this topic.

[Wosven]

9 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Nope. They are two pairs of shoes

Exactly!

I completely forgot that there was also a leading option in the character panel, since I don't use it and tend to disable this in ID, to be sure whole paragraph respect the settings they've got.

I'm not sure it could be imputed to a lack of coffee since at the time I should have already finish it

[thomaso]

> I completely forgot that there was also a leading option in the character panel, since I don't use it and tend to disable this

An according workflow for APub could be to 'disable' those options in the Character panel by keeping its section closed.

This makes me wonder why the UI does not show the leading in the non-collapsible top section in the Paragraph panel – like the Character panel does for size, font, color.

[KipV]

5 hours ago, Wosven said:

Perhaps Leading override should be called "Baseline shift" or something else, since people not used to layout apps like QXD and ID seem to confuse the 2 and not use them properly.

For me it is not so much the name that is confusing it's that the leading override box looks just like any other leading box. There is no clear indication it is much different then the others. If you let your mouse hover over the box for a couple of seconds a label comes up but otherwise I don't see how anyone would know. Given that what is in this box can disable the other boxes they need to have a text label that makes it very clear what you are doing. Under Paragraph > Spacing there is a text label for leading but what really needs the label is the leading override. Perhaps there should also be something in the regular leading box that shows you leading overrides is turned on.

 

[thomaso]

5 minutes ago, KipV said:

I don't see how anyone would know. (...) they need to have a text label that makes it very clear what you are doing.

Tutorials ...  Affinity Help ...  Q&A Forum (before reporting a bug) ... and finally conscious try & error = exercise & learn.

[KipV]

Tutorials don't make up for poor user interface design. The fact I need to jump through this many hoops to make the simplest of typography adjustments is poor design.

[thomaso]

As mentioned before: UI can't replace missing knowledge, in this case of typography and its various aspects, which indeed and 'simply' may be quite complex. APub is designed for professionals, like the instruments (~ UI panels) in a cockpit, not showing any tooltip at all but demand fundamental knowledge about physical aspects to be able to read –> interpret –> understand –> and use them correctly.

> The fact I need to jump through this many hoops to make the simplest of typography adjustments is poor design.

No, you don't need to. But for some reason you did partially, unfortunately in a conflicting way. By application default the leading override is set to do nothing. It's a bit like driving a car with the handbrake on and wondering why it doesn't drive properly. "The car is poor designed, I need to check the handbrake before driving"?

[Wosven]

1 hour ago, thomaso said:

> I completely forgot that there was also a leading option in the character panel, since I don't use it and tend to disable this

An according workflow for APub could be to 'disable' those options in the Character panel by keeping its section closed.

I use the options in Positioning and Transform, notably Kerning, Tracking, Baseline, Sub/superscript and No break, the 2 last usually with character styles.

That's only the Leading override that I don't use with characters or character styles, since from using QXD I think it's a paragraph characteristic, not a character one.
I disable in ID the option that permit a single character to modify a whole paragraph leading if this character leading is higher, for example.

 

1 hour ago, KipV said:

For me it is not so much the name that is confusing it's that the leading override box looks just like any other leading box.

Sorry for the confusion about leading and baseline, I forget it was part of this panel.

In doubt, you can always hover the cursor on the left of the input, and in a second you'll have the tool tip.

An error that can be made on Windows, is scrolling on the value to have it increasing or decreasing. It's so usefull that I try it in many apps, without succes most of the time, alas. But for this you sould be sure to be above the right one, or you'll modify another value.
Looking at the lockdown videos, I think I would have a hard time doing without if I used again a Mac and its simple mouse. It's really faster to do it with the scroll and modifier keys. I don't understand why Apple stick with this old rodent today. It's good we can use other mouses on Mac too.

[KipV]

Good iconography design is difficult to do. They need to show what something does through the use of the most basic imagery. This icon fails. It shows what leading does but not what it really does. Now that I know it's function that doesn't make up for poor icon design. I don't need knowledge of how to use tools with bad UI design. I need for it to be thought out correctly so that no one needs to why the symbol doesn't match the function at all.

Like I stated yesterday other users in these forums are similarly perplexed at some of Publisher's set up who come compared to mature layout tools. I didn't expect it to have all of Quark's and InDesign's advanced tool set but it is reasonable to think I could breeze through what a design student would learn in the first day of a Typography 101 class. It has been clear I need to go back to layout tools that have decades long development because Publisher's single year on the market hasn't turned it into a serious competitor.

[KipV]

2 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

Looking at the files you included showed me that the Designer file has all the items for the logo but if you Group them then the text will scale along with graphics.

Yes, that is the way grouping would normally work. But due to the baseline grid being turned on it still messed with the text. I still don't know why it was turned on. I just transferred it over from an IMDL file this week that was created with InDesign many years ago. Maybe it was turned on through InDesign? I don't know. But yes I can now scale the logo by grouping it.