Smarter Use of Right-Click

[Jakob Winter]

This is a tricky one to formulate, since it touches different tools (and at this point I can't even see its overall implicatins). So I am very much open to discussions

Right-Click vs. Right+Left-Click

Example 1 - Lasso Tool:

To add to a selection, you have to hold down Right + Left Mouse button. To subtract from your selection, you have to hold down the ALT key. The following thoughts pop into my head:

• Those seem like two different concepts (one using a modifier key, the other using some fancy mouse button magic)
• Why do I have to press two mouse buttons? Wouldn't one be enough?

The solution: 

• Use Drag + RightMouse + LeftMouse to Add to Selection (as is the case today)
• Use Drag + RightMouse to Subtract from Selection
• Keep ALT as subtraction method too (for backward compatibility)

 

Example 2 - Patch Tool:

For the Patch Tool there don't seem to be any modifier keys at all - even though it uses a tool quite similar to the Lasso tool

• The Patch tool should therefore adopt the same modifiers as the Lasso tool (as described above)

 

This behavior (Drag + RightMouse = Subtract / Drag + RightMouse + LeftMouse = Add) could be adopted for pretty much all selection and paint tools!

 

The Same When Adding ALT

To change brush size / hardness, you can hold down ALT and RightMouse and LeftMouse and Drag (up/down for soft/hard and left/right for small/large). 

• The additional LeftMouse is pointless. We could just leave it out (as in Photoshop)
• Maybe we can come up with an additional tool for using both buttons (e.g. Lightness and Saturation)

 

What do you all think? Is it a brilliant idea or have I overlooked something? Would love to hear your thoughts!

 

 

 

[fde101]

Hi @Jakob Winter, welcome to the forums!

 

4 hours ago, Jakob Winter said:

Those seem like two different concepts

It is using one of the mouse buttons as a modifier key because there are only three available on Windows.  A Mac has four and does not use the other mouse button for this.

 

4 hours ago, Jakob Winter said:

Why do I have to press two mouse buttons?

Because you are using Windows.

 

4 hours ago, Jakob Winter said:

Wouldn't one be enough?

Yes, if you switch to using a Mac.

 

The short version is that there are too many things Serif wanted to use the modifier keys for and because Windows has one less modifier key than a Mac does they had to find an alternative for that platform.  The mouse chording technique of using two mouse buttons was the solution they came up with.

[Jakob Winter]

Well, in the above cases the RightMouse button doesn't serve any other purpose. So using RightMouse + LeftMouse is completely unnecessary.

[walt.farrell]

4 minutes ago, Jakob Winter said:

Well, in the above cases the RightMouse button doesn't serve any other purpose. So using RightMouse + LeftMouse is completely unnecessary.

You need the left mouse button because without it you're just moving the mouse, not performing some action. Thus, the left mouse button activates use of the mouse. And if you have only the left mouse button, you can make a selection, but you can't add to it.

You need the right mouse button to tell Affinity that you want to Add to the selection. But you still need the left mouse button because that button is what activates the mouse and initiates the action.

[carl123]

5 hours ago, Jakob Winter said:

The Same When Adding ALT

To change brush size / hardness, you can hold down ALT and RightMouse and LeftMouse and Drag (up/down for soft/hard and left/right for small/large). 

• The additional LeftMouse is pointless.

When using a brush, Alt + RightMouse on its own is already assigned and shows you...

Current Brush Size and Hardness
Brush Shape & Spacing
Brush Rotation

[Jakob Winter]

1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

You need the right mouse button to tell Affinity that you want to Add to the selection. But you still need the left mouse button because that button is what activates the mouse and initiates the action.

But why can't we use a Drag + RightMouse action? Surely the computer can register when the right mouse button is being pressed. Then the left mouse button wouldn't be needed.

 

1 hour ago, carl123 said:

When using a brush, Alt + RightMouse on its own is already assigned and shows you...

Current Brush Size and Hardness
Brush Shape & Spacing
Brush Rotation

Ah, I didn't know that. But Brush Size and Hardness are also displayed when pressing ALT + RightMouse + LeftMouse. 

Brush Spacing and Rotation would be the perfect setting to use as secondary ALT action. Thanks for mentioning that! 😀

 

By the way, just to make my intentions clear: I am not trying to win an argument. I am just trying to get the logic behind the current behavior and - if possible - improve on it. And thus far I fail to see the benefit of the current behavior and would see my suggestions above as great workflow improvement.

[walt.farrell]

Just now, Jakob Winter said:

But why can't we use a Drag + RightMouse action?

"Drag" is defined (at least in Affinity, and at least on Windows) as "press left mouse button and move the mouse". Thus, when you want Drag + right mouse that's "left mouse + right mouse + move the mouse".

I suppose it might be possible to detect mouse movement with only the right button pressed, but I haven't done enough Windows programming to know for sure. And if that were done I don't know how extensive the changes would be elsewhere in the Affinity applications on Windows, nor what the changes might imply for the Mac versions of the applications.

There are also implications for other behaviors, since it can matter which button is released first, and that has to change if there's only one button pressed to begin with. So I think it's more of a major redesign than may be immediately obvious.

[fde101]

On 5/18/2020 at 12:27 PM, walt.farrell said:

it might be possible to detect mouse movement with only the right button pressed

Absolutely it is.

Try using only the right button to drag a file icon from one folder to another on Windows - not only will it drag the icon, but when you release the button it gives you a context menu asking what you want to do with it.

There are various games which do this all the time as well.

[Jakob Winter]

On 5/20/2020 at 5:04 PM, fde101 said:

Try using only the right button to drag a file icon from one folder to another on Windows - not only will it drag the icon, but when you release the button it gives you a context menu asking what you want to do with it.

Awesome. Didn't know that trick!

[Jakob Winter]

On 5/18/2020 at 6:27 PM, walt.farrell said:

"Drag" is defined (at least in Affinity, and at least on Windows) as "press left mouse button and move the mouse"

In that case, I used the term incorrectly. But my feature request remains the same.

[Jaycephus]

Weird flex by mac people, lol 
I've currently got a mouse with 16 buttons. Not sure why there's such attitude about mouse buttons.

The descriptions need to indicate which buttons are pressed, and in what order.
If actions include pressing LMB+RMB+DRAG, then it should be indicated that way.
(And in the process, suppress the right-click pop-up menu. If you can't do that, stop using the RMB as a modifier.)

When using the pen-tool, 'CLICK' + ALT is used to sharpen the point. But ALT is the modifier, and should be pressed first, before the LMB CLICK.
ALT+LMB or ALT+CLICK would be better
It would be intuitive that SHIFT+ALT+CLICK would do the opposite, smooth the point.
Instead the description says CLICK+RightMouse. If pressing and holding the Left mouse button, and then clicking the Right mouse button, nothing happens.
You have to press and hold the RMB first, then the LMB.
Then while you do that, the right-click menu pops up extraneously in the process.

This all seems very ugly and misbegotten. Just use SHIFT+ALT+CLICK

[Wosven]

12 hours ago, Jaycephus said:

This all seems very ugly and misbegotten.

That's why it doesn't feel natural, and differently as in other apps, I never was able to memorize those right-click shortcuts, when I have no problem usually switching apps.