Jump to content
Our response time is longer than usual currently. We're working to answer users as quickly as possible and thank you for your continued patience.

Issue(s) on Asian line breaking rules


Recommended Posts

First of all, thank you for implementing Asian line breaking rules even though it's still immature.
I will be reporting issues about it here.

The first problem I found is that the rules don't work with directional quotation “”

This is the rules that Microsoft Word uses

Japanese

Can not start line:
!%),.:;?]}¢°’”‰′″℃、。々〉》」』】〕ぁぃぅぇぉっゃゅょゎ゛゜ゝゞァィゥェォッャュョヮヵヶ・ーヽヾ!%),.:;?]}。」、・ァィゥェォャュョッー゙゚¢

Can not end line:
$([\{£¥‘“〈《「『【〔$([{「£¥

Chinese

Can not start line:
!%),.:;>?]}¢¨°·ˇˉ―‖’”…‰′″›℃∶、。〃〉》」』】〕〗〞︶︺︾﹀﹄﹚﹜﹞!"%'),.:;?]`|}~¢

Can not end line:
$([{£¥·‘“〈《「『【〔〖〝﹙﹛﹝$(.[{£¥


This is Adobe's
I guess this is better than Microsoft's since most designers are used to Adobe's
And a reason it's slightly different from Microsoft's can be because Adobe targets Unicode only.

Both Japanese & Chinese

Can not start line:
!),.:;?]}¢—’”‰℃℉、。々〉》」』】〕ぁぃぅぇぉっゃゅょゎ゛゜ゝゞァィゥェォッャュョヮヵヶ・ーヽヾ!%),.:;?]}

Can not end line:
([{£§‘“〈《「『【〒〔#$(@[{¥
 

Inseparable character - can 't be broken when repeated like ………
—‥…

Hanging punctuation - can stick out to outside of the text frame if it's at the right edge.
、。,.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

THIS ONE IS CRITICAL:

Some of symbols and following symbols should break up.
Did you set no-break rules for them?

e.g.
今日は天気ですね。「おはようございます」

it seems that "。" and "「" are always together side by side without breaking up.
Also it seems that it's applied to these symbols that should break up with following symbols.
!"):;>?]}’”〉》」』】〕〟!),.?]}。」、・

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks a lot @ashf, did some quick check with common punctuations I use and most, if not all, seem to working fine now. Haven't done in-depth layout test but at least the punctuation marks are not appearing at the wrong places...

Kudos to Affinity team and if anything you want me to help testing, please don't hesitate to let me know.

Cheers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Gabe said:

We can't provide a list with these at the moment. Sorry :(

a forum user omachi provided test result here(in Japanese) and it seems that there are many characters that's not targeted.
https://cs5.xyz/blog/2020/05/ap184kin_main.html

But on my side, some characters seems to be targeted despite his result. so I wanted to confirm it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, ashf said:

a forum user omachi provided test result here(in Japanese) and it seems that there are many characters that's not targeted.
https://cs5.xyz/blog/2020/05/ap184kin_main.html

But on my side, some characters seems to be targeted despite his result. so I wanted to confirm it.

Kudos to the forum user, it's so comprehensive.

Cheers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
On 5/6/2020 at 11:18 PM, ashf said:

THIS ONE IS CRITICAL:

Some of symbols and following symbols should break up.
Did you set no-break rules for them?

e.g.
今日は天気ですね。「おはようございます」

it seems that "。" and "「" are always together side by side without breaking up.
Also it seems that it's applied to these symbols that should break up with following symbols.
!"):;>?]}’”〉》」』】〕〟!),.?]}。」、・

Most of thing I posted here except directional quote haven't been fixed in 1.8.4.663
Especially unwanted no-break rule above need to be fixed asap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/14/2020 at 9:54 PM, Gabe said:

We can't provide a list with these at the moment. Sorry :(

Understand from the development standpoint, but if Serif is serious about tackling the issue, either you have to hire an expert/consultant on this topic, and/or work more transparently or actively with users like @ashf.

Personally I'm impressed by the work @ashf and the Japanese Affinity userbase has done what's basically free QA for Serif. You don't find it in other places very often. 

Given time, people will lose interest, give up and move on.

Just my 2 cents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...
  • Moderators

Improvements have been made to the code in terms of some automation, but we acknowledge that the full solution will take some time and so for now did not put the change in the marketing "fix" list, but yes it's better than 1.8.3

Patrick Connor
Serif Europe Ltd

"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man. True nobility lies in being superior to your previous self."  W. L. Sheldon

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/8/2020 at 5:42 AM, Patrick Connor said:

Improvements have been made to the code in terms of some automation, but we acknowledge that the full solution will take some time and so for now did not put the change in the marketing "fix" list, but yes it's better than 1.8.3

Thank you.
Would you fix the no-break rule problem I posted above in the next update which is critical.
I confirmed that it hasn't been fixed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FYI: Another resource for Japanese text layout

 

Requirements for Japanese Text Layout (W3C Working Group Note 3 April 2012)

https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/

 

This document is mainly based on Japanese Industrial Standards JIS X 4051. It is very useful and reliable.

Line breaking rules are describers in section 3.1. And the appendix C is also important.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...
On 5/6/2020 at 11:18 PM, ashf said:

THIS ONE IS CRITICAL:

Some of symbols and following symbols should break up.
Did you set no-break rules for them?

e.g.
今日は天気ですね。「おはようございます」

it seems that "。" and "「" are always together side by side without breaking up.
Also it seems that it's applied to these symbols that should break up with following symbols.
!"):;>?]}’”〉》」』】〕〟!),.?]}。」、・

 

 

Please fix this unwanted no-break rule.
I confirmed that this still exists in 1.9.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...
On 5/6/2020 at 11:18 PM, ashf said:

THIS ONE IS CRITICAL:

Some of symbols and following symbols should break up.
Did you set no-break rules for them?

e.g.
今日は天気ですね。「おはようございます」

it seems that "。" and "「" are always together side by side without breaking up.
Also it seems that it's applied to these symbols that should break up with following symbols.
!"):;>?]}’”〉》」』】〕〟!),.?]}。」、・

 

 

This still exists in 1.9.4 beta.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
On 5/6/2020 at 11:18 PM, ashf said:

THIS ONE IS CRITICAL:

Some of symbols and following symbols should break up.
Did you set no-break rules for them?

e.g.
今日は天気ですね。「おはようございます」

it seems that "。" and "「" are always together side by side without breaking up.
Also it seems that it's applied to these symbols that should break up with following symbols.
!"):;>?]}’”〉》」』】〕〟!),.?]}。」、・

 

 

Still the same in 1.10 beta (1.10.0.1103)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...
On 5/6/2020 at 11:18 PM, ashf said:

THIS ONE IS CRITICAL:

Some of symbols and following symbols should break up.
Did you set no-break rules for them?

e.g.
今日は天気ですね。「おはようございます」

it seems that "。" and "「" are always together side by side without breaking up.
Also it seems that it's applied to these symbols that should break up with following symbols.
!"):;>?]}’”〉》」』】〕〟!),.?]}。」、・

 

 

Still the same in 1.10.5.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 8 months later...

Please implement these rules at least before the next update if implementing whole rules I mentioned above takes a time.
Brackets and punctuations which are the most important characters for the line breaking rules.
(some of them are already working though.)

Can not start line:
!),.:;?]}’”′″、。〉》」』】〕・!),.:;?]}。」・ーー

These of the above list seems to be not yet included in the rules.
,:;′″・:;・ーー


Then please included these after that.

Can not start line:
¢‰℃℉々ぁぃぅぇぉっゃゅょゎ゛゜ゝゞァィゥェォッャュョヮヵヶヽヾ%

Can not end line:
£§〒#$@¥

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please note there is currently a delay in replying to some post. See pinned thread in the Questions forum. These are the Terms of Use you will be asked to agree to if you join the forum. | Privacy Policy | Guidelines | We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.