Printer Icon

[R C-R]

4 hours ago, Andy05 said:

*sigh* You forgot to mention that Affinity surely has to hire 40 people to create 40 different icons...

It isn't the 40 files for the 5 AP personas -- they already exist. It is all the new ones that would need to be added for each added custom toolbar item. Typically that will be 4 for each button added. It is true that each would not have to be designed independently for each size or UI color scheme, but at just 18x18 pixels for the 1x sizes & 36x36 px for the 2x ones & a pair of color schemes that must work for all 3 schemes (light, dark, & monochromatic), plus the requirement to make each of them retain the same 'family' resemblance and be sufficiently different from all the other button 'families' to avoid confusion, it isn't something that even the most gifted icon designer could just knock off in a couple of workdays.

For that matter, just for the existing ones there are long standing complaints about the appearance of some of the buttons looking too much alike or not indicating their function clearly enough.

4 hours ago, Andy05 said:

That code for a customisable toolbar already exists. The links already exist. The translations already exist (i. e. in menus). The only thing to do is connecting this already existing stuff with - admittedly, new to create - icons.

Yes, the code already exists. But there are no existing links to any of the new png files that would be required because those files do not yet exist, nor would they be automatically created simply by adding the files to the resources folder. Neither do the 11 language tooltip text strings exist, nor do any required for any disabled message windows. There is also the far from trivial matter of creating unique file names for each of these individual new files that do not conflict with any of the other 3000+ png files in the Resources folder & linking each of those file names to the appropriate feature.

The executive short version is the code just provides the framework for the toolbar items, but it does not provide any of those items, nor does it ensure that any of them will be sufficiently unique or suitable for their intended purpose, nor even that they will be linked to the appropriate feature or function. It is that 'heavy lifting' that takes so much development time & effort to get right.

[Marilyn]

I didn't realise that requesting the ability to be able to add a printer icon to the toolbar would create so many conversations.  It is really interesting stuff reading about what goes on behind a button! Hope I am not causing a war and this is just friendly banter

[Andy05]

9 hours ago, R C-R said:

Yes, the code already exists. But there are no existing links to any of the new png files that would be required because those files do not yet exist, nor would they be automatically created simply by adding the files to the resources folder.

Oh, REALLY? Wow, you're trying to explain programming to someone who used to program machine codes (partially by just coding in hexadecimal numbers) in the early 80s for Z80 applications and games, my dear!

[R C-R]

Just now, Andy05 said:

Oh, REALLY? Wow, you're trying to explain programming to someone who used to program machine codes (partially by just coding in hexadecimal numbers) in the early 80s for Z80 applications and games, my dear!

FWIW, I also did some ML programming in the early 80's, although for a different CPU family. But programming high level GUI's in modern OS's is completely different, as I am sure you know just as well as I do.

[Andy05]

42 minutes ago, R C-R said:

FWIW, I also did some ML programming in the early 80's, although for a different CPU family. [...]

And yet, you're continuing with your arguments about how tricky implementing this request would be? That's kinda ridiculous. Seriously.

[R C-R]

1 minute ago, Andy05 said:

And yet, you're continuing with your arguments about how tricky implementing this request would be? That's kinda ridiculous. Seriously.

What specifically do you think is ridiculous about it? 

On Macs, every toolbar button must be supported by a set of uniquely named png files in the app's Resources folder; they all need tooltip strings for all supported languages; each of them must be clearly distinguishable in three different display modes & across the full range of UI gamma settings; & all the rest of it.

I am not making any of this up. If you have access to the Mac Affinity apps you can check all this for yourself. Select the Affinity app in Finder, right click on it & choose "Show Package Contents," & browse through the Resources folder. Not only will you find 3000+ png files; you will also find a multitude of *.nib & *.strings files in the various *lproj  language folders that provide the structural frameworks for the UI's & the numbered indirect references to text string objects. All of this must be correctly linked with every component of the app, including with each other & with the Affinity Unix executable & the dynamic library frameworks or it won't work.

It is true that developing using the Mac XCode app simplifies this somewhat, but every addition still needs to be created & tested before it can be added to the app. Adding one or two new toolbar items should be no big deal, but as with so many other things in software development work, scaling it up to support dozens more of them definitely will be.

Of course, this is just for the Mac versions. The Windows ones would need to take into account the differences in the windowing models, file structures, language support features, & so on between the two platforms.

[Andy05]

And if all those tiny tasks already could overwhelm the Affinty staff (as you're trying to sell it to us here), there's not much future for this apps.

Hence, I rather like to think of some more competent people working for Affinty who could implement this kind of extension to existing code without panicking about breaking the whole program (or your lovely Mac)...

[Ralph]

18 hours ago, Andy05 said:

No. Or do you get the same icons now in all your scenarios? You can ignore it as often as you want, but I'll tell you again: That code for a customisable toolbar already exists. The links already exist. The translations already exist (i. e. in menus). The only thing to do is connecting this already existing stuff with - admittedly, new to create - icons. (Which any average gifted designer could finish within 1-2 workdays - in all resolutions and colour schemes.)

Wash my mouth out - but this is one area where Microsoft Office's Quick Access Toolbar has got it right. LOTS of icons and lots of personalisation.

If I have this right, that is what Andy is asking for - and I (and lots of others) are 100% with him.

But let's not get personal😯

[thomaso]

2 minutes ago, Andy05 said:

And if all those tiny tasks already could overwhelm the Affinty staff (as you're trying to sell it to us here), there's not much future for this apps.

Hm? – Do you mean if a requested print button will not get implemented then the app will never get an update in the future, neither with bug fixes nor with any other feature? What if Serif simply prefers to do bigger things first than "all those tiny tasks" of a print button?

[R C-R]

22 minutes ago, Andy05 said:

And if all those tiny tasks already could overwhelm the Affinty staff (as you're trying to sell it to us here), there's not much future for this apps.

The only thing I am trying to sell to anybody is that it is not a 'tiny task' to add lots of new items to the toolbar. Like I said, adding one or two should be no big deal.

I have explained in considerable detail why I think it would be a very big deal to add lots of them. You have offered nothing specific about why you think it would not. Personally, I think my sales pitch is the more compelling one, but as always YMMV.

[Andy05]

51 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Hm? – Do you mean if a requested print button will not get implemented then the app will never get an update in the future, neither with bug fixes nor with any other feature? What if Serif simply prefers to do bigger things first than "all those tiny tasks" of a print button?

It's not about a print button alone anymore. Not for ages. It's about a customisable toolbar. Since obviously quite some fear about the massive workload such industry standard feature might take, for heaven's sake, just make 5 or 10 user defined buttons, name them "A", "B", "C"... or "0", "1", "2"... and let them assignable with whatever 10 functions a user needs most. 

If Serifs just continues to "strife to do bigger things", they'll have a massive problem in version 3, 4 or whatever, if they have countless things which they missed do to until then. Fortunately, they are not going that route. 

Continuously adding new, fancy features is awesome, if you want to sell quickly. But that's also what's broken a lot of businesses' necks on the long run (that applies to all sectors, not just design/print/artsy programs).

[thomaso]

18 minutes ago, Andy05 said:

It's about a customisable toolbar. (...)

If Serifs just continues to "strife to do bigger things", they'll have a massive problem in version 3, 4 or whatever, if they have countless things which they missed do to until then.

(...) fancy features is awesome, if you want to sell quickly. But that's also what's broken a lot of businesses' necks on the long run

If an app in its version 1 or 2 does not offer a specific feature then it still can offer it "in version, 3, 4, or whatever". Or 10, 11 etc., without "massive problems" at any time on this way.

If an app offers a "fancy feature" (regardless of print button or customisable toolbar are fancy or not) – why should it run into any "broken business neck" by the decision for this specific feature? And also, why should the neck brake, if this single decision is against this feature and the feature will have to wait or even never come?

Don't you think that many apps indeed do exist successfully since years, without offering some specific or all requested features?

Hm. So, these your prophecies appear so intensive general, unspecific and also hardly related to each other (nor to a print button or a customisable toolbar) that they just seem to be "trying to sell it to us here" and even can appear "kinda ridiculous" this way.

[Andy05]

I don't know if you couldn't read and understand my text or if you just didn't want to. 

15 minutes ago, thomaso said:

If an app in its version 1 or 2 does not offer a specific feature then it still can offer it "in version, 3, 4, or whatever". Or 10, 11 etc., without "massive problems" at any time on this way.

That's the point. "Let's do it later", is exactly the wrong thinking. As there will always be "bigger" things which one would want to add first, in version 2 as well as in version 2000. If it's possible "without massive problems" at any time - why not making "at any time" as soon as possible? 

I said that ignoring small things for the sake of constantly adding new fancy stuff (which a customisable toolbar is NOT for obvious reasons) instead in order to attract new buyers can break a business' neck. As proven by countless examples out there throughout all sectors of all industries. A lot of big players' businesses went down the hill because they focused too much on adding new products/features/ideas/whatever whilst ignoring to maintain and improve existing stuff.

A small amount of the things on a roadmap should be reserved for improvements/extending of small things. Again, I never said, that the toolbar should be the most important thing for the apps' roadmap. But it should be on the list nonetheless (and not just under "maybe, some time in the future").

I also never said, that Affinity will fail because they don't add a print icon (or a better costomisable toolbar). Neither did I say they constantly ignore all small request, because that'd be nonsense. But browsing through the forums should give you also a hint of a lot of common things which they haven't implemented for years as they've rather been working on other, "bigger" things, which sound better in advertising their products.

Latter is not a bad thing per se, but one has to find a balance in order to stay successful long term. That's all. And constantly arguing in this topic solely with "Wow! Hold a second! It needs work to do such (small) things!" is the wrong approach. 

[thomaso]

2 minutes ago, Andy05 said:

why not making "at any time" as soon as possible? 

That was answered already by R C-R with the (indirect) hint to limited manpower for a specific moment or period of time. It's simply one can't get everything done simultaneously. Who knows what is done by Serif "as soon as possible" – possibly even everything? When using such general unspecific terms a prophecy isn't of use, because it always can be right (or wrong).

[Jowday]

9 hours ago, Marilyn said:

I didn't realize that requesting the ability to be able to add a printer icon to the toolbar would create so many conversations.  It is really interesting stuff reading about what goes on behind a button! Hope I am not causing a war and this is just friendly banter

Don't worry - Serif read your comment - the "debate" is just a modern edition of this: 😂

 

[R C-R]

Even though the film was dedicated to Laurel & Hardy, the pie fight in The Great Race was better. Real pies, a stink so bad from spoiled pies that the building required a thorough cleaning afterwards, the actors pelting the director with hidden pies after the final 'cut!," the longest pie fight in movie history ... what's not to love about it?

[Jowday]

12 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Even though the film was dedicated to Laurel & Hardy, the pie fight in The Great Race was better. Real pies, a stink so bad from spoiled pies that the building required a thorough cleaning afterwards, the actors pelting the director with hidden pies after the final 'cut!," the longest pie fight in movie history ... what's not to love about it?

Nuts! I almost feel like making a Great Pie Fight swatch 🥴

 

[Old Bruce]

3 hours ago, R C-R said:

Even though the film was dedicated to Laurel & Hardy, the pie fight in The Great Race was better.

"Push the button Max!" ... "Not That Button!"

Catch phrase for the past 50 years in my family.