Image Properties Scale to Max Fit

[thetasig]

Suggestion that the Image Properties Scale to Max Fit actually choose in which dimension the image fits into the Picture Frame and then fit the picture into the frame in that dimension.

Often the scale is performed correctly, but currently, the image often ends up partially "out of the picture" and partly invisible and partly in the Picture Frame. The result is that  the user must often grab the image center and move it manually into position in that (one) dimension. Often that is all that needs to be done. In some cases one might have to resize and reposition. Three screen shots - one after scaling to max fit and the other after manually dragging the image into the center of the frame, and the third is the original image from the source document (it's just a tad wider). Oh, and just to note, in some cases, the "scale to max fit" to fix the image actually comes out larger in both x and y dimensions than the frame - but that's rare. I haven't been able to capture a screen shot of that yet.

And here is a little background. I have two documents open - a source and a target. The images from the source page are copied and pasted to the target as a "group" - then the group has to be moved to a page and made somewhat centered by locking the aspect/relationships and dragging one corner of the group inward to fit a smaller page. During this action (making the group fit a smaller page), any source images that are not already marked with "scale to max fit" will be dragged out of their frames instead of staying intact within their frames (first screen shot shows this). This is why the target images sometimes need to be reset to 'scale to max fit' and centered into their frames.

I'm making this a feature request/suggestion, but it may fall into the "bug" category...

[thomaso]

I might not get your described approach entirely. In my experience the only lack with Picture Frames is if they don't respect a setting when their image gets replaced, sometimes even with an image of identical dimensions. For most other use I experience obvious improvements compared to earlier app versions.
 

38 minutes ago, thetasig said:

the image often ends up partially "out of the picture" and partly invisible and partly in the Picture Frame. The result is that  the user must often grab the image center and move it manually

No manual move: Center the image with a double-click on the center of the arrows icon.

42 minutes ago, thetasig said:

the group has to be moved to a page and made somewhat centered by locking the aspect/relationships and dragging one corner of the group inward to fit a smaller page.

To maintain the aspect ratio of a multiple frame selection drag the outer handle at bottom right and "Lock Children" not activated.

52 minutes ago, thetasig said:

any source images that are not already marked with "scale to max fit" will be dragged out of their frames instead of staying intact within their frames

To move/scale frames including images make sure that "Lock Children" is not activated.

56 minutes ago, thetasig said:

in some cases, the "scale to max fit" to fix the image actually comes out larger in both x and y dimensions than the frame - but that's rare. I haven't been able to capture a screen shot of that yet.

To show image borders (+ handles) outside its picture frame double-click on the image.

To resize a frame to fit its image use the button "Size Picture Frame to Content".

[thetasig]

Thanks very much  @thomaso,

I tried your suggestions and the double-click on center does, indeed, center the image. Aspect ratio is maintained when drag the outer handle (I never knew that). And I've always had Lock Children not activated. Using that outer handle all of the images "stay put" inside their frames without shifting - that is going to be a real time-saver for me. Also, now I know I can grab the image borders after double-clicking the image.

All in all, very helpful, and I learned a thing or two in the process 🙂

[thomaso]

1 hour ago, thetasig said:

the outer handle (I never knew that)

An outer handle may also occur in other situations, the most important is at every frame text object: There it causes the font size change when its frame size gets altered by dragging.

For images and picture frames you can experience furthermore the different (opposite) use of shift-drag when scaling either image or its frame. It may confuse first but once you get used to it it's quite helpful.

[thetasig]

Thanks very much. Do you by chance know a way to preserve the font size when dragging a group of image and text frames using the outer handle? The handle preserves the image aspect as you drag it smaller/larger - but it would be nice to exclude the text so that it stays at it's original size. It may be a binary situation and, in that case, I'd have to decide whether it's easier to fix the image aspect/sizing or change the text size and corresponding text frame sizing after dragging the group. Originally, I was dragging / shift the inner handle which preserved the text sizing but images shifted around a bit.

[thomaso]

To scale a bunch of selected containers with scaling their image content but not text size you can use nested layers (Group), (Layer). Select the parent layer(s) and drag a corner handle. Dragging a mid handle stretches the image ratio but not the text. Again, shift-drag influences the scaling, different depending on the handle position. The outer bottom handle reacts the same as with an ungrouped selected bunch: it scales all content types.

Furthermore the Constraints Panel allows to define complex, very specific behavior for layers when scaling them with others.

[thetasig]

I performed a search for "nested layers" in the Affinity help web site and could not locate instructions. Then I found something else on another site, but it was for AFPhoto instead. Is there somewhere I can get a "tutorial" for how to use nested layers in Publisher?

For the immediate needs, I am just using Shift-Drag-Inner handle on a mixed group of text and picture frames/images. This keeps the text the same size but shrinks/expands the picture frames, etc. Fixing the image positioning and size is fairly quick.

I did read up on Constraints - very useful.

Thanks again for your help

[thomaso]

This "nested layer", and also "parent", was rather a visual in my text than a technical term of Affinity. I used it to express that both types, grouped and layered layers do work this way. Although "group" and "layer" sound more Affinity affine, it sounds less clear to me, because 'grouped' and 'layer' can have several meanings when working in Affinity. (Like in APhoto "clipping" and "masking" aren't really clear terms.) – However, therefore I had added their official, default layer labels "(Group)" and "(Layer)" in my workflow description above.

Here's is how it looks:
0:00:  inner corner handle: frames do scale, text doesn't.
~20 sec: outer corner handle + shift: frames and all content scales + maintain ratio.
~30 sec: inner mid handle: frames do scale / images stretch, text doesn't.
~ 40 ... / ~50 ... :

Note: instead of nesting all objects in one (Group) layer they also can be inside a (Layer) layer, or nested in several groups or layers inside a group or layer. The objects to scale are arranged as children, whereas only their parents get selected for scaling.

 

 

[prophet]

A caveat, as mentioned in another thread, you can scale all content in a group by dragging the "outer corner handle", but if you scale by inputting a dimension or percentage in the Transform Panel, everything will scale except the text.

 

[fde101]

On 5/3/2020 at 6:42 PM, thomaso said:

An outer handle may also occur in other situations, the most important is at every frame text object: There it causes the font size change when its frame size gets altered by dragging.

Not quite accurate.  The font size does not change when dragging that handle; rather the entire content of the frame (including paragraph decorations, inline pictures, etc.) is scaled, with the font size remaining the same.  The distinction becomes significant if you link to other frames, as the other frames being scaled differently (or not at all) will still receive the same font size but because of the different scaling will render it differently - something which has been the subject of much confusion here on the forums.

This is also significant because if you hold down shift while dragging that handle the scaling will ignore aspect ratio, allowing you to change the aspect ratio of the frame text (and other content), something that a simple font size change would not enable you to do.

[thomaso]

4 minutes ago, fde101 said:

Not quite accurate.  The font size does not change when dragging that handle; rather the entire content of the frame is scaled, with the font size remaining the same.

I don't experience this. To me the value of font size always gets changed when scaling with the outer handle, both visible in character panel and context tool bar.

I also get both changed, the visual text appearance and its numerical font size, when scaling with the outer handle just one of several linked text frames.

And even with holding shift key + dragging the outer handle the font size value gets adjusted accordingly, if the text gets stretched then additionally an according value in the characters panel reflects the stretching.

In case you really experience it as you described you should open a separate topic (maybe + video). since this thread is about "Image Properties Scale" and your font size experience would be quite buggy.

[fde101]

59 minutes ago, thomaso said:

the value of font size always gets changed when scaling with the outer handle

Yes, the display of that value gets changed, and if you copy and paste into another application it will similarly copy at the scaled size, which I think adds even further to the confusion, as the actual behavior of the scaling behind the scenes is otherwise quite different.

Try creating a small frame with a few lines of text, scaling it larger using the scaling handle, then using a non-scaling handle to reduce the height of the frame until a few lines get lost off the bottom.  Click the red triangle on the right side of the frame and drag out a new linked frame to contain the overflowed text.  The text in the overflow is at the original size, not the scaled size.

If you are editing text in the original frame (the scaled one) and do a select all, copy, then paste into another application, ALL of the text (from both frames) paste at the scaled size, even though they display at different sizes within Publisher.  If you are editing in the linked frame (the unscaled one) and do a select all, copy, then paste into another application, ALL of the text (from both frames) paste at the original size, without the scale applied.

Thus the apparent change to the font size is evidently happening when displaying the size value in the toolbar/character panel and when copying, but is not actually changed "under the hood."  Otherwise I would expect the text from the two linked frames to copy at the displayed sizes of the two separate frames...

[thomaso]

This is not necessarily related to the scaling or in particular the outer handle, but is rather a curiosity or special property of linked text frames.

You can also achieve such unexpected results if you simply copy / paste with the Move Tool a single text frame of a chain, or if you select the linked frames individually with the Move Tool and apply different font sizes to each. If you then enlarge one frame, this may also cause unwanted or unexpected font sizes to be displayed, entirely regardless of scaling and outer handle.

I assume that a text frame object always has a certain font size assigned + in mind, which can be independent and different from the font size of the text it contains. However, I don't continue to discuss font size in this topic, which is about image scaling and image properties. Feel free to open one about font size and/or text scaling behavior instead.