Layers Guide (V1) - Understanding Masks, Moves, Crops, Clips, and Adjustments

[Yolanda]

YES, that is the difference!!!! Got it. I tried to duplicate the letters and the rectangel  in my workspace to excersize this. I just found out, that if you use a brush in a pixel layer, and then RightClick 'mask to below' it works as in your worksheet. ( @Dave Vector  )    But starting with a vector shape as I did, you have to  first 'rasterise to Mask' and then 'mask to below' 

the difference is the vector shape as a mask and a pixel layer as a mask.  THANKS @anon2

Yolanda

[ashf]

On 4/10/2021 at 9:15 AM, Dave Vector said:

Thanks @anon2. The crop icon AD uses to indicate a vector mask confuses me.  I think there are a few things about layers that are not intuitive or easy.  I will update the cheat sheet.

Yeah, the crop icon is shown on layers regardless of whether it's vector or pixel.
If it's a pixel, it supposed not to be a vector mask.

[loukash]

@Dave Vector, your cheat sheet is missing vector crops with transparencies that will act as non-destructive masks.

Those can include various multi-nested layers with non-destructive compounds, groups etc. All children will be hidden if applied as a crop to an object, but all attributes will remain intact and editable when temporarily released. It can get as complex as needed, with zillions of vector objects. No "rasterize to mask" needed as long as the fills and strokes are composed using opacity values (the actual color values are then irrelevant). Shuffle between Photo and Designer to make use of all available Designer vector tools in Photo's bitmap masking context, and vice versa if you want to apply e.g. Photo's live filters in Designer.

[loukash]

12 hours ago, loukash said:

All children will be hidden if applied as a crop to an object, but all attributes will remain intact and editable

In the meantime I've discovered a way to edit the nested but inaccessible vector child objects without releasing the parent crop layer:

1. open document in Designer
2. option-click the crop layer thumbnail to isolate the layer
3. switch to outline view: easier for #4 right below
4. select individual curves or nodes with the Node tool
5. switch back to vector or pixel view for live preview
6. edit any appearance attributes, curves, shapes or nodes of the previously selected child object

Doesn't necessarily work for individual compound sub-objects or adjustment/filter layers. To edit those, the crop layer still needs to be released, i.e. simply by temporarily making it a clipped object instead of being a crop.

Let me know if you need a screencast to demo how it works.

[Nahelmicasheli]

On 4/11/2021 at 12:34 AM, Dave Vector said:

Thanks to @Yolanda and @anon2 for the recent clarifications to the Cheat Sheet, Task 4.  You feedback is appreciated

Here is the latest version:

Layers Panel Cheat Sheet 3.2.pdf 334.25 kB · 33 downloads

 

 

Thanks a lot @Dave Vector! This helps a lot to understand layers for noobs like me

 

[cgidesign]

Thanks for creating this cheat sheet.

[Dave Vector]

Glad I could help you out in your learning journey, @anim. 

For anyone looking for the cheat sheet, click on the post below for a link to the most recent version:

 

[Washishu]

On 4/10/2021 at 5:15 PM, Dave Vector said:

Thanks @anon2. The crop icon AD uses to indicate a vector mask confuses me.  I think there are a few things about layers that are not intuitive or easy.

How right you are there. It does seem unnecessarily complicated. I can't help feeling that some of this would be best in the panel side-menu, but that's maybe AI speaking I admit.

Dave, you’ve put time and effort into this and I’m grateful for that. It’s the best tut on the Layers panel I’ve seen so far. The official tutorials don't seem to mention these complexities at all. As a refugee from AI, I’m struggling a lot with these intricacies of exactly where I drag things and what I get as a result.

I recreated your layers with a Q and a gradient-filled rectangle so that there were as few variations as possible to think about.

I don’t understand the difference between cropping and clipping—or, more accurately I know what the words mean but I don’t quite understand why I need both. Generally, in my experience, cropping will delete whereas clipping doesn't and so is easily reversible. However, cropping is also reversible here, so why do I need clipping. In your example (2) (I'm looking at the most recent example above this), to achieve the 'cropped' Q I could simply create a rectangle and use it to clip the Q; what does cropping achieve that this wouldn’t?

Also, I can only achieve a crop—as in (2) with the crop icon. Moving the rectangle thumbnail icon to the area indicated in (3) does not achieve the illustrated effect (the blue bar UI feddback) or result. I only get the blue bar across the whole panel and it only moves the rectangle layer down below the Q layer. No matter how I try to manipulate the placement of my cursor I cannot get the UI feedback you indicate in (3). I don’t see why it should, but in the interests of providing as much info as possible, does it matter that I have only the two layers? The rectangle on top and the Q beneath.

Also, as you clearly understand the layers functioning much, much better than do I, can you explain for me why when I create a new doc., and start creating objects etc., they do not appear on a layer? Unless I actually creat a new layer, these objects exist on their own on some, it seems, phantom layer. It's puzzling as it requires a major change in working and I don't understand the reasoning.

[Dave Vector]

@Washishu  First off, I am pleased this learning resource could benefit you and others.  My understanding of ADs layering system came after much confusion which is why I made the cheat sheet and I still sometimes lean on it for my own work because the UI drop positions are not intuitive or easy to "catch" with the mouse.  I would love to suggest to Serif more intuitive ways to do this, but I am not sure how much weight my voice would have.  So for now this is what we got, and it is pretty powerful when you know how to control it.

To answer your last question first, regarding why newly created shapes do not appear in a layer, I suppose they do indeed exist in some "phantom" layer. Maybe a better way to look at it is the objects exist at a document "root" layer.  So the dark grey space is some sort of giant canvas and all new objects start there at the root layer, essentially layer-less.  It's a bit confusing that you can start with no artboard, yet there is this white rectangle there delineating the chosen dimensions of the newly created document.  I suppose this is a more of an "output area guide" for delineating export and printing.  Creating an artboard will add your first layer, replacing the "output area guide".  Now every object you previously created within that guide area will now be in that artboard layer.  Obviously the Layers studio (panel) is your best friend here to watch how the objects behave by observing their hierarchical indentations.  Creating any new layers at this point is really for organization but it is interesting to note that you can create a layer not within the artboard hierarchy, yet the objects can be still have the artboard below/above them, if that makes sense.  So a created layer can transcend the artboard in some way and objects within that layer are independent of the artboard.  Grouping is just a handy form of a layer, with very specific contextual hierarchical results, depend upon what is selected at this point.  All types of layers (Artboards, Layers, Groups) can have Layer Effects and Adjustments applied to them for some awesome flexibility. And yes, even an object is it's own layer.

On to Cropping vs. Clipping (do you have your cheat sheet handy?).  When Cropping (2), the top shape (rectangle) is used to limit the exposure of the bottom shape Q.  Note that it is only using the path of the rectangle as a means to limit what you see of the bottom Q shape. No fill or stroke elements are applied.  When Clipping (3), the bottom Q shape uses it's outline to limit the exposure of the top rectangle, but note that both objects retain their fill and stroke.  Masks (4) behave like Crops, but their specific function is to use light and dark values, AND the outline of the top rectangle, to limit the exposure of the bottom Q shape, the extra dimension of darkness is being used to affect the visibility of the bottom Q shape.  If you notice on the cheat sheet in the layer result column of the (4) Masks row that the layer panel view shows black around the Masking shape as well as the gradient fill to black, obviously black is the value for 100% transparency.

As for your difficulties to get Clipping (3) to work, I am not sure what to suggest, but the UI delineation for the mouse pointer seems to be the bottom half of the layer to the right of the thumbnail.  Cropping/Masking is always dragging the top layer with the mouse pointer in the middle third of the thumbnail.  I just tried it will the latest Affinity Designer 1.10.5.1342 and it still worked for me. 

To answer your question: "Does it matter that I only have two layers?" No it does not.  Please note in your Layers panel, or in the "Layer Result" column of the "Layers Panel Cheat Sheet.pdf", that there is also specific indentation distances for each of the 3 states (Crop, Clip, Mask).  Personally I think that Crop and Mask should have the same indentation and the same mouse pointer drop zone but Clip and Mask should be different because the visual results are more similar, but I am sure Serif has a technical reason even if it is not intuitive.

I hope this helps anyone with similar issues.  Thanks again for your kind words!

Dave.

PS:  Here is he latest version of the "Layers Panel Cheat Sheet 3.2.pdf" (<-PDF link), found a few posts back (page 1), here:

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/114361-layers-guide-understanding-masks-moves-crops-clips-and-adjustments/&tab=comments#comment-771765

[NotMyFault]

Hi, great tutorial. 
 

I‘m trying since ages to produce something similar for the more complex cases (applying alpha aware adjustments, and using groups or deeper levels of nesting). 
I think your case 4 (rectangle as mask) describes a useful case, but misses the core functionality. 
When using vector shapes in masking position, the opacity value of colors is used, instead of the lightness. This is important if you want to use gradients for masking. Instead of using colors and „rasterize to mask“, simply apply the opacity to the nodes. So you can use the rectangle directly - non-destructively. 
 

[Dave Vector]

5 hours ago, NotMyFault said:

I think your case 4 (rectangle as mask) describes a useful case, but misses the core functionality. 
When using vector shapes in masking position, the opacity value of colors is used, instead of the lightness. This is important if you want to use gradients for masking. Instead of using colors and „rasterize to mask“, simply apply the opacity to the nodes. So you can use the rectangle directly - non-destructively. 

@NotMyFault Thanks for adding value to this point.  I was using the terms "light and dark values" very loosely.  Your term is more accurate and further strengthens the explanation and use case for (4) Masks. 

Cheers!

[Dave Vector]

If you were following this thread for the cheat sheet updates,

I created a new thread and cheat sheet for version 2 of the Affinity apps.

Check it out below!

 

[Washishu]

On 4/2/2022 at 5:40 PM, Dave Vector said:

As for your difficulties to get Clipping (3) to work, I am not sure what to suggest, but the UI delineation for the mouse pointer seems to be the bottom half of the layer to the right of the thumbnail. 

I've not looked here for a while. I had no success whatever with using a vector shape to clip a photo image; just couldn't find that magic single pixel to hover over to make it work. I gave up on it and resorted to cropping the image(s) in P'shop and placing the crop.

And then one day—

I found by chance that it is the horizontal movement that matters; I drag the image to the right side—the far right side—of the vector layer and I get a photo image clipped by the vector object. But I don’t see the blue bar under the layer as you indicate. True, it doesn’t extend all the way under the thumbnail as with a move, but it does extend part way under it—about half way under. If I make the exact same move you illustrate in no.3, it doesn’t work. Moving the cursor up, down and around below the centreline as indicated by your red arrow and green box, I can achieve only no2, a crop or no.5, a move.

No-one else appears to have experienced this so I wondered if I have something switched on or off in the preferences, something like Clipping mask only works when cursor is at the right side of the panel and not as directed in Dave Vector's crib sheet, but I can’t find anything like that.

What’s going on I wonder? I don’t really care, now that I know how my version appears to be different from others and that I have to move the cursor to the far right, but I am curious and wondering what else might be different.

 

[Dave Vector]

Hi @Washishu,

First off, are you using the new Affinity version 2 apps?  If you are, the "drop" zones have changed for the layer nesting.

I cover it here, and I updated the cheat sheet, in a new thread:

 

[Washishu]

Dave, hello again.

No I'm not v2. I'm producing stuff only for my personal use and v1 suffices for that. I don't think I use AD often enough that I need to consider updating. I've discovered how to make it work now, I am content at last.

But out of general interest; 1. is my starting point. 2. the crop—I can get this easily by drag/dropping as your sheet shows. 3. Is what I have to do to get the clipping. Any further to the left and I'm back to the crop in 2 again.

[Dave Vector]

@Washishu  Interesting.  I cannot test this currently as I don't have version 1.x on my computer any more.

My best guess is that perhaps Serif played with the zones on a later version of  1.x??

 

[Washishu]

Maybe so. There are a lot of others who found it just as frustrating as I did at the start, so, yeah, maybe they did change it and just forgot to tell us. Thanks for your time anyway.

[Calvert]

You guys seem knowledgeable about the clipping... I can't find..

How do I move an existing photo that all ready has been clipped. Say reposition/resize without moving the mask itself?

[Dave Vector]

2 hours ago, Calvert said:

You guys seem knowledgeable about the clipping... I can't find..

How do I move an existing photo that all ready has been clipped. Say reposition/resize without moving the mask itself?

If you are referring to task #3 "Rectangle Clipped":

Ensure you have the top layer of the group selected.  It should be highlighted in blue like this in the layers panel:

If you move the "Q" in the view window with the Move Tool, the nested bottom clipped layer (rectangle) should move with it as well.

[Calvert]

NO

1. It is actually like #2 or 4 as a mask. But its not about the position in the layers. Its the actual objects.

I want to grab and move/re-scale the Q after it has been masked. (And NOT MOVE THE MASK)

 

I ran into this after an object was masked and needed to resize / center it within the mask without touching the mask itself.

[NotMyFault]

Activate „lock children“ before moving.

https://affinity.help/photo/en-US.lproj/pages/Tools/tools_move.html

[Calvert]

thank you