[Photo]: XMP sidecar equivalent?

[JasperD]

Unless I´m really overlooking some setting somewhere, I cannot find any provision for coming back to where I was before going the Photo Persona route, so after processing a raw file in the Develop Persona! Sure, I can activate the Develop Persona again, but all settings will reset to default at that point. Worse: going back to the Develop Persona will not reload from the initial raw file, but just make all adjustments as already set, available but at their default values, not what I had set them to before pressing Develop - the button next to Cancel, not the one for Develop Persona.

 

That´s a nice way of going beyond some maximum: i.e. you can blank out a whole photograph by repeatedly doing  it that way, each time pushing exposure and brightness all the way to the right, black point to the left... It is also rather destructive. Once set some Clarity, Contrast on the Basic panel and Detail Refinement on the Details panel for instance, I will have to restart from scratch (so the raw file) to correct if a customer decides that I have overdone it! Please do not point me to a blur filter in the Photo Persona: sure, loads of possibilities there, not as convenient methinks.

 

In short, I´m really missing my XMPs and, related to that, the possibility of just storing that very small footprint text file, instead of the huge file size of an AFPHOTO format. That is, when I really don´t need anything from the Photo Persona, of course.

 

Are there thoughts on bringing something like that to Affinity Photo? 

[rke21]

that would be nice to have for the development persona but I cannot imagine how it can be done because Affinity Photo is rastor based editor and not adjustment instruction based that are used in DAM/Raw editors. Normally, XMP's are adjustment instructions that are stored in a database like SQLite. The adjustment instructions for all your adjustments for your image can be exported into an XMP file from the database. Lightroom and Darktable are example of that and they have somewhat compatible XMP. Aperture also use a SQLite for storing adjustment instructions but Apple doesn't have XMP export/import option.

[JasperD]

I don´t have a DAM other than Bridge nor a DB in Photoshop CS6 (that I am aware of anyway): the XMPs are generated and saved automatically when I´m done with ACR, either when saying that or when taking the image to Photoshop, that´s it. When I then later use just the Finder to move that raw file and the matching XMP to another location on my HDs, and open it from there, the image will be the same. I know that the same will be true if I go with them to another computer; possible small differences due to display calibration let alone of course. I did not check that out myself, but occasionally send just an XMP to a friend far away, for a raw he had provided, and it worked.

 

In context, I consider the Develop Persona quite the same as ACR. I´m also convinced that the developers could come up with something quite alike. It´s not rocket science. The parsing algorithms will possibly take some time though.

[coranda]

Non-destructive develop layer is on the current road map for AP and I'm hoping it will be something similar to what you describe, that it will reload the original raw file and repeat already made adjustments whenever the developed layer is returned to the develop persona.

 

However, whether or not the develop adjustments are stored within the aphoto file or can be exported to xmp remains unknown. Hopefully both options will be available.

[tiguanis]

I would like to suggest that you somehow remember the changes made in the develop persona when switching to the photo persona.  

 

It would be great to be able to switch back to the develop persona and see the original raw file with the changes that I made.

If I can make changes to the original raw file after making changes in the photo persona, it would be even better if those changes rolled into the photo persona.  This would give AP the functional equivalent to PS Smart Objects. 

[JasperD]

...

 

However, whether or not the develop adjustments are stored within the aphoto file or can be exported to xmp remains unknown. Hopefully both options will be available.

 

Hopefully, indeed. I´d dearly miss my XMPs or whatever similar structure for one reason only: I have quickly developed a bunch of raw files with Affinity Photo. Enough to get an idea of what it will be if fully switching to AP as I would intend over time. Affinity really has the potential, so far I managed to produce better results with it than with CS6. I didn´t believe my eyes at first, but I really did. 

 

However, as it is now, I can probably not afford it: all my images now take 600GB on a dedicated 2TB external HD. What I have seen so far from AP are files between 119MB and over 650MB. Averaging tells me I would need over 5TB (8.5 x more) of storage instead of the 600GB. For the same comfort that I have now, I would need 16TB of external storage! Not to mention replacement of my 3TB TimeMachine in that case...

 

 

 

I would like to suggest that you somehow remember the changes made in the develop persona when switching to the photo persona.  

 

...

 

That´s exactly what you achieve with the XMPs. If you don´t need the full fledged Photoshop for anything else, the only impact on storage is that of an XMP. Slightly more than 80% of my files right now - I have my preferences set to always open raw files with ACR.

[coranda]

I've been doing (amateur) digital photography for about 4 years now and I already have over 30,000 RAW images.  The one's I want to print (large) I edit in Photoshop (and now in AP) and they are necessarily quite large - often 2GB+.  However, it's simply not practical to have all of my images converted from RAW to some other form.  I don't use xml files, I use the Lightroom database but, either way, it's essential to have some way to do basic editing of the "ordinary" shots that doesn't take up much more space than the original RAW file.

 

At the moment, my approach is to send the RAW file from Lightroom to PS/AP converted to a TIFF or PSD.  Those files that don't need PS are adjusted in Lightroom and exported as TIFFs or JPEGs as required.

[JasperD]

We have about the same catalog, albeit I seem more selectively shooting than you are: the same 30K pictures, but since 2006. I am a pure amateur hobbyist. I also have Aperture since release 2 and Lightroom 4 since 2012, merely because it took Apple over a year to support my X-Pro1. Also what comes with a camera although hardly ever used - the SilkyPix 4 version coming with my Fuji is doing a good job also, however. I finished learning Photoshop (steep learning curve for an old dinosaur) and finally got confident enough. Tired of being captured by the dedicated libraries, so got rid of them (not totally yet, I´m processing again, but backwards).

 

On the external HD, you will only find the original raw files and whatever XMP was produced, possibly PSDs. Now also the AFPhoto files of course. No TIFFs, but maybe would need that in the context of AP, as a final step for some of the NIK components. No JPGs, except for the first two years, when I didn´t dare to shoot RAW and process that myself (regret that now). Not anything else. What still is in the LR catalog and Aperture library is on the internal HD; their end is near though. 

 

My current tools are Photoshop CS6 (always, for now), Photo Suite 9 occasionally and NIK plugins where I like to use them. I was overwhelmed with joy and pleasure when discovering AP (had done a little bit with the beta), the file sizes notwithstanding. However, reality has me looking into the future... I hope it will all sort out nicely!

[coranda]

About 50% were in the first year, I've become more discerning since then.  Personally, I prefer the Lightroom/Aperture catalogue approach to xml files because it appeals to my sense of order - and I spent many years teaching database management so it's kind of how I see data management.  But that's clearly just a personal preference.

 

I'm also on CS6 and am hoping AP will be the viable replacement before CS6 finally ceases to work whatever hardware/OS I eventually upgrade to.  AP has some way to go but it is well on the way to being the replacement I need so I'm an enthusiastic owner of the programme and was happy to pay the relatively meagre purchase price now rather than waiting for it to be a total replacement in my workflow.

 

However, for a number of reasons, including the one we're discussing here, I don't feel the RAW convertor is yet good enough for me to switch over so I divide my images between those I can get satisfactory in Lightroom and the special ones (often composites) that require PS/AP and so are worthy of the necessarily expanded file size.

 

Until AP provides both a better RAW convertor (which they are working on) and a way to store RAW process sequences without producing a completely rendered image I can't see myself using it's Develop persona.  A full database centred DAM system is not something Serif will be able to develop anytime soon so I'm hoping they provide something like xml files so that, when I'm happy with their RAW convertor, I can start using it on more of my images.

[JasperD]

In ´real life´, I was an Oracle DBA (also Informix and Interbase, but as side effect), combined with developer (Assembler, C/C++ and Delphi), System Administrator on Unix and Network Administrator - a one man job. It killed me in the end, I´m glad I got out of it!  ;)

 

Let´s see what the next update will bring, in about a few weeks I read elsewhere in some other thread. But yes, history on the RAW develop process and the huge file sizes are really bugging me. What I managed to process correctly though: oh my, my, my... I really hope and wish for Affinity to fully succeed.

 

So yes, in short, I am also an enthusiastic owner, so much so that I completed my sketching and drawing software as well, with Affinity Designer. Looking very good too, but I am much less involved in that. Mainly used Autodesk´s SketchBook so far (love that one too, although [very cheap] yearly subscription now, for the Pro version), possibly with Pixelmator once in a while.