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Free Transform, Perspective & Warp Tools


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On 8/16/2022 at 6:03 AM, DGee said:

Vectorstyler is amazing for it’s toolset but the interface needs a lot of work and the workflow is quite different from affinity, illustrator etc… so working with Vectorstyler is not smooth for me and it may never be unless all the shortcuts match most common apps and the interface gets a complete redesign. It does not feel like an app for designers, it feels like an app made by a crazy genius who does not happen to know much about design.

Yes, he is a crazy genius, he could probably easily replace 2-3 developers in some companies, but he is an open minded crazy genius, so you can get a lot of influence through his forum, where others contribute to the suggestions made. It's not impossible to imagine functionality changing significantly within a reasonable time, because he himself has stated that he wants all the feedback he can get. And unlike open source forums, he doesn't wildly protect his pet peeves or anything, but curiously asks questions. And he's actually designed the architecture of the program right out of the software architecture book, so fixes are made incredibly easily. And according to himself, the architecture is designed to support plug-ins - but in a future release. It is IMPOSSIBLE not to be curious.

So bottom line is that not everything is carved in stone, but the program is in some places not easy enough to use, but not difficult either. The most important thing I've learned with software is to find a few programs and then get to know them thoroughly. I don't think VS is bad at all to get used to after I learned Blender 3D!

But for Affinity Designer users, it's not taste and preference, but the brutal math: do I want to make and adjust 200 nodes to simulate a long uneven line, or do I want to drag a special tool over it in 3 seconds and get the same result in, say, VS? Will I spend days adjusting a detailed illustration to make it look natural in a different perspective, or will I do it in 3 seconds with a special tool, without touching the original (non-destructive effect) in VS. And so on.

You can pay the expense for the big programs or do everything manually. We all live forever, don't we? Not really. So ... hello compromise. Free choice, of course, but I think there's a pretty strong opposition of principle in here. We could have got to know 3 features of VS better in the time we've spent typing on our keyboards in here.

I've probably tried all the alternatives on Windows and macOS with focus on what gets results, secondarily what's reasonably easy to use. Affinity and VS do that for me together. But only one program is moving and adapting to user feedback: Vectorstyler.

10 Reasons Why Strategic Plans Fail
Having a plan simply for plans sake - Not understanding the environment or focusing on results - Partial commitment - Not having the right people involved - Writing the plan and putting it on the shelf - Unwillingness or inability to change - Having the wrong people in leadership positions - No accountability or follow through - Unrealistic goals or lack of focus and resources.

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I'm an optimist so I'm going to say that Affinity is holding this function back for Designer 2.0, and that they're currently crunching to release it (or a public beta) this year since there haven't been any beta versions since march. 

Now I dont actually have expectations of 2.0 being released any time soon since there has been no official information about it yet, but if it doesn't have this fundamental feature, it's going to be really embarrassing in my eyes.

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No, I didn’t say that. They aren’t 3d files btw, they are 2d vectors and I want to export them from AD, not import/open 3d files from some other package in AD. I was under the impression designer was a 2d vector editor. Those dxfs would be used as profiles to create 3d objects in fusion360 (although as I can export svg now, that is less important) but creating dimensionally accurate curved spline shapes and using those in the production of copper layers in circuit boards in diptrace and altium would be great.

 

If I could just buy illustrator outright still I would (or run the standalone cs5 I still have the disks for) but you can’t run it on Mac anymore on any recent OS. I don’t need or want constant upgrades; I want dxf export of reasonably simple, single layer, single colour vectors for the most part. It was the age of this thread and the lack of these features mentioned here still that just made me realise it’s never going to happen.
 

paying adobe monthly forever for a feature that has been in illustrator and freehand since decades ago is stupid. Booting up fusion 360 to export 2d vectors for altium or diptrace is dumb too, even though it’s more powerful for this purpose than AD. I’m far quicker for such tasks with illustrator and similar bezier editors. 
 

After reading this forum, I don’t expect this feature to be added no matter how nicely I ask. If it was going to be added, it would have by now. It’s such a basic feature I didn’t even consider it wouldn’t be possible. Back When I ran the demo, I was more focused on photo. Hell, Aldus  freehand could do it in the 90’s (I miss freehand :( back then I used photoshop for raster and preferred freehand for vector ) I can’t imagine there would be much development required.

 

I’ll check out vectorworks, but I’m more likely to run an old version of freehand or illustrator on a dual boot windows machine than start paying adobe monthly for just that feature (I hate windows but recently bought a machine to run altium, so I’ll probably do that)

 

pretty sure in spite of my efforts nobody knows what im talking about, but I’m not going to spend any more effort on explaining myself..

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3 hours ago, tudor said:

Speaking of Vectorstyler... I've been trying to replicate a signage file I built in Designer for printing. In the AD file there are 13 artboards, 31.5"x79" each. On all artboards there is a big 300dpi bitmap file as a background. On top of it I have some text and other graphic elements. Two artboards contain 40 sponsor logos, other artboards have additional vector and bitmap graphics. Designer absolutely flies through it. It's a pleasure to work with it. Illustrator would've struggled on that file. I know, I've been using it for 20 years and its slowness is the reason I avoid using it, even though I've been an Adobe CC subscriber since the beginning and keep paying for it (and for the Astute plugins).

Well Vectorstyler with only ONE artboard became totally unusable the second I imported a hi-res bitmap. :( Just trying to select/move/resize that bitmap made the application unresponsive. I guess it's made for pure vector operations, like illustrations and drawings, not for layout work.

These are the very things that get fixed quickly if you share them with the vectorstyler developer.  Email him both files, the affinity version and the VS recreation and explain the issue. Do a screen video showing you zipping around the file in affinity and the issues doing so in VS. Explain what you need it to do and where the issues are. He'll find a fix for it, usually within days. As others have said, the developer wants feedback and ideas, examples of issues and files that need assistance. Seeing issues addressed quickly with feedback and new builds released  often has us spoiled. It's not common practice for developers to be this quick and effective.

If you're looking for issues in VS, they can be found. The program is not perfect and there are plenty of improvements to be made to it. There are things I still turn to my old copy of cs6 to accomplish because they cannot yet be done fully in affinity or VS. I have a list of things I want to see fixed and improved and over time they've been addressed or are in the queue. Vectorstyler is a work in progress and part of being involved in the development of it is sharing the issues, testing things out and finding workarounds in the meantime while the roadblocks get cleared. 

In a similar way, I hope the improvements to affinity in version 2 allow me to do more of my professional work in that program. While VS is a vector powerhouse, there are times the simplicity of working in affinity is appealing. I also enjoy using the iPad versions and would love to see updates theremi see my design future utilizing both affinity and VS and it's great that graphics can be swapped easily between them.

 After sharing the issues with the VS developer, keep using affinity for that task since  it does it so well right now. Watch how quickly VS overcomes that obstacle!

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29 minutes ago, Boldlinedesign said:

These are the very things that get fixed quickly if you share them with the vectorstyler developer.

I'm still playing with it and I triggered some new ugly bugs when doing simple operations. It's definitely not ready for any serious work.

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7 minutes ago, tudor said:

I'm still playing with it and I triggered some new ugly bugs when doing simple operations. It's definitely not ready for any serious work.

I'd have to completely disagree since I've used it for all my full time professional work since January. The issue may be with your computer specifically because that's not the norm.

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8 minutes ago, tudor said:

I'm still playing with it and I triggered some new ugly bugs when doing simple operations. It's definitely not ready for any serious work.

It's really not my experience with Vectorstyler, certainly not with simple operations, and I do use it daily and a lot, but we hardly use the program for the same purpose and in the same way, so those interested will have to try it out in the trial version and see if they experience any problems. It is pointless to post back and forth about it in the empty theoretical space.

But again again again ... again. I personally use it to get ALL the features that are NOT in Affinity Designer, as a supplement to Affinity Designer. Vectorstyler is continually improving and helping me more and more to SOLVE MY DESIGN TASKS, the next big upgrade of Affinity will determine if I stay with Designer. Designer's share of my work is steadily declining. Simply because of what it can do and how fast it can do it. 

It all gets so black and white in here. But blocked by serious bugs with no hope of fixing, you have to go another way. Of course.

That was my last post in this thread. 🙂

10 Reasons Why Strategic Plans Fail
Having a plan simply for plans sake - Not understanding the environment or focusing on results - Partial commitment - Not having the right people involved - Writing the plan and putting it on the shelf - Unwillingness or inability to change - Having the wrong people in leadership positions - No accountability or follow through - Unrealistic goals or lack of focus and resources.

Get it?

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7 hours ago, Rastupin said:

No, I didn’t say that. They aren’t 3d files btw, they are 2d vectors and I want to export them from AD, not import/open 3d files from some other package in AD. I was under the impression designer was a 2d vector editor. Those dxfs would be used as profiles to create 3d objects in fusion360 (although as I can export svg now, that is less important) but creating dimensionally accurate curved spline shapes and using those in the production of copper layers in circuit boards in diptrace and altium would be great.

 

If I could just buy illustrator outright still I would (or run the standalone cs5 I still have the disks for) but you can’t run it on Mac anymore on any recent OS. I don’t need or want constant upgrades; I want dxf export of reasonably simple, single layer, single colour vectors for the most part. It was the age of this thread and the lack of these features mentioned here still that just made me realise it’s never going to happen.
 

paying adobe monthly forever for a feature that has been in illustrator and freehand since decades ago is stupid. Booting up fusion 360 to export 2d vectors for altium or diptrace is dumb too, even though it’s more powerful for this purpose than AD. I’m far quicker for such tasks with illustrator and similar bezier editors. 
 

After reading this forum, I don’t expect this feature to be added no matter how nicely I ask. If it was going to be added, it would have by now. It’s such a basic feature I didn’t even consider it wouldn’t be possible. Back When I ran the demo, I was more focused on photo. Hell, Aldus  freehand could do it in the 90’s (I miss freehand :( back then I used photoshop for raster and preferred freehand for vector ) I can’t imagine there would be much development required.

 

I’ll check out vectorworks, but I’m more likely to run an old version of freehand or illustrator on a dual boot windows machine than start paying adobe monthly for just that feature (I hate windows but recently bought a machine to run altium, so I’ll probably do that)

 

pretty sure in spite of my efforts nobody knows what im talking about, but I’m not going to spend any more effort on explaining myself..

If it helps, Inkscape supports saving into dxf as far as I know. As it is with many open-source tools it has a specific GUI, but it's not terrible, just something to get used to and imo less intuitive than Designer. But it has more functions than Designer in general.

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Thanks @Vozka i'll check out inkscape as well. the above convoluted workaround i mentioned, using AD->svg export->Fusion360->DXF export->Diptrace/Altium does work, I tested it this afternoon, but as I run AD and diptrace on MAC and Fusion360/Altium on PC (actual PC, not emulation on mac) its even more of a PITA. 

 

My old MAC CS5 installer is on DVD-R, so even the install onto the windows machine is not possible (even if it had a disk drive ...). those installers on disk were of course OS specific, so installing on windows with my existing license is not doable. Maybe i'll resurrect my old mac pro just for illustrator CS5  ... lol. 

 

So yeah I guess it is about the money, not not having it, just not being able to justify it as an ongoing expense for such limited feature use. Or a month here and there for a couple hours use. Hell, you cant even just 'buy' illustrator, you have to get the whole designer bundle. We have some product shots, 3d render/mockups and marketing/web design coming up after the prototyping phase and enclosure design and 3d printing get more close to finalised. Perhaps I can justify adobe CS again to make it easier on myself. 

 

Yes, I wear a lot of hats and we are just a 2 person startup.

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24 minutes ago, Rastupin said:

using AD->svg export->Fusion360->DXF export->Diptrace/Altium does work,

@Rastupin

 

in case you only need to import SVG/AI to export it as DFX
and you may dont know

i like to point you on two things

First is "MOI 3D" a little Nurbs Modeller
- would import AI/PDF, EPS and Export as DFX

Here the Link:
Moi 3D Homepage

 

Second
as far as i know Blender could import SVG
and Export as DFX

 

dont know if its really helpful, just thoughs
that came into my mind as i read your post above

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks for the reply mate. appreciate you taking the time. Yeah, I already have fusion360, which imports SVG and outputs DXF/DWG and does have a good 2D vector editor itself. you just right click on a 2d sketch and you can export DXF or DWG. I'm just a lot quicker with illustrator/AD style vector editing, as i've been using them for so much longer. I can achieve what I want to do with the tools I have, without the need for AD at all; I just hoped it would do what I wanted. I dont want to learn and buy new 3d software to achieve the same 2d output I want, but thanks, yes, it would solve my problem as well; if somewhat redundant :P  I might just snag myself a new wacom display, or spacemouse and just put in the time in fusion so it becomes as second nature.

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  • 2 months later...

After years of begging, pleading and demanding, we finally have vector warping. I'm very happy to finally have it, but I honestly can't say I like it very much for every use. It's very useful for freehand warping, but anything structured, (like for typography when you need symmetry & verticals/horizontals to stay true,) it is a bit of a chore to use.

We need more behaviors and tools:

1. The nodes to be able to snap with modifier key like a regular node. Vertical, horizontal, 45 degrees.

2. Have a toggle or modifier for symmetrical node behavior both in same direction and opposite directions.

3. Better presets that are easier to edit. Employing a special node like the shape tools use would be extremely useful for preset use. This way we can make flag, raised edge, and warps that need symmetry with ease. (See Vector Styler).

Vector Styler easily remains the gold standard for best implemented vector warping, especially for type, IMO. There are so many options and they take literal seconds to employ. It is still faster to copy from Designer, warp in VS and paste back in Designer than it is to manually move every node for an envelope distort where you need to ensure vertical/horizontal lines stay true, (ex. for a raised edge or flag type effect). I urge the Affinity devs to give it a close look and see about employing similar usability.

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I agree.. well except for the vectorstyler thing as I don't have a Mac..

But, it's version 2.0. The first release.. I'm pretty sure some improvements and bufixes are on the way. I already added the lack of snapping as a bugreport (on windows though), you're welcome to add to that post and give it some traction. The real bugs are most likely gonna get most of the attention atm though (as it should).

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12 hours ago, Xzenor said:

Oh wow.. I always thought it was Mac only.

It started out as Mac only when it was in initial development and beta and then expanded to include Windows.  It's been crises platform for a while now. It's an amazing program that offers an incredible number of advanced features. I use it for my full time work and use affinity designer sparingly. 

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The fact they want to pay them for AD v2 which changes almost nothing and adds almost no missing vector tools (Jesus! There is almost NOTHING - Eraser, Free Shadows, Distortion, Perspective, Extrusion, Envelope, Mesh Gradients, shapes like Grid etc., transform tools like Roughen, Smudge etc., real vector brushes...) is a real joke. The only app that should be released now is AP and I still wonder if a few dynamic masks are worth doing an upgrade, but that's really cool app anyway, sto I don't want to say it's not worth purchasing. Mindblowing... 

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1 hour ago, Designer1234 said:

The fact they want to pay them for AD v2 which changes almost nothing and adds almost no missing vector tools (Jesus! There is almost NOTHING - Eraser, Free Shadows, Distortion, Perspective, Extrusion, Envelope, Mesh Gradients, shapes like Grid etc., transform tools like Roughen, Smudge etc., real vector brushes...) is a real joke. The only app that should be released now is AP and I still wonder if a few dynamic masks are worth doing an upgrade, but that's really cool app anyway, sto I don't want to say it's not worth purchasing. Mindblowing... 

You're pretty much spot on. Designer is really missing a lot. I was excited at first, but the more I use V2, the more I'm let down by what should have been. Add to that the headache of transferring everything from V1 to V2 on the iPad app is a huge hassle. 

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4 minutes ago, Phojoegraphy said:

Add to that the headache of transferring everything from V1 to V2 on the iPad app is a huge hassle.

Everything about working on the iPad is kind of a pain in the rear. I bought a couple of the v1 apps for iOS and once I began using them, I just resolved to make time to do that work on the desktop. 

The apps are fine, it's routine stuff like file handling and installing fonts that makes the iPad as much fun as doing taxes. 

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