Break up this forum?

[RichZep]

I’m not sure the best place to post this, so this will do. I do feel it would be beneficial to everyone if this forum was split into three. Photo, Publisher and Designer. As the forum gets bigger it can take ages to trawl through to a point of despondency. The titles that posters use tend to be a bit meaningless and we have to open and read the whole post. If I was looking for an answer regarding AP I would look in that forum. It would probably help posters get an answer quicker.

What do others think?

[John Rostron]

This has been posed many times before. The view from Serif seems to be that the commonality of the three Apps requires a common forum. Many users, including myself, dissent from this. You will find that there are many messages posted here both for and against the proposal.

John

[Cecil]

+1 but as stated above, I don’t think we will ever see separation by programs.

[Pšenda]

8 minutes ago, BofG said:

Maybe a good compromise would be to force the user to select a tag denoting which app their post relates to?

 

 

[wonderings]

Seems to make a lot of sense and I am sure there is no real back end hassle in doing this. You are going to have unique questions for each app as each app serves very different functions, page layout, vector handling and illustrator and photo. The commonality is all 3 apps can be used to create a finished product, but that is about it. Personally I am far more interested in Publisher as Indesign is my most used application and favourite.

[Cecil]

52 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

 

 

I requested that they add a new box, after create New Topic, that required the user to add their program to advance to their question.  I believe many new users may not know the appropriate tag.  This could automatically populate the programs name and avoid new users that struggle now to state their problem couldn’t advance to their question unless they stated their program.  I also believe that the new box could mandate that they select their OS.

[walt.farrell]

37 minutes ago, wonderings said:

You are going to have unique questions for each app as each app serves very different functions, page layout, vector handling and illustrator and photo

You certainly won't usually have page layout questions about Photo, though it is possible someone would because Photo can open Publisher documents.

But Publisher has a Photo Persona, and a Designer Persona, and so users of Publisher may have questions about how things work in Photo or Designer.

And all three applications have many common and overlapping functions. Someone who wants to know about how to use adjustment layers, or fx, or masks, could be using any of the applications and the answers and techniques will the same regardless of which application they're using, in most cases. Someone with questions about the Export Persona could be using either Designer or Photo, and the answers will for the most part be the same.

I am of the school that believes there are far more overlapping questions and functions between the 3 applications than there are disjoint ones

But I also agree it would be nice for users to specify which application they're using (as well as, perhaps, which OS) for those times when it does matter when answering the question.

Edit: Also, however, users should not try to search for answers only for Designer, or only for Photo, when they are asking about something that is common to the other applications. That's a good way to miss relevant answers.

[MmmMaarten]

3 hours ago, BofG said:

Maybe a good compromise would be to force the user to select a tag denoting which app their post relates to?

Totally agree with this. Would be great. Although this forum looks like a generic forum. I've seen it elsewhere. Not sure if Serif or a third party can customize this to force tag inputs from users. Would be a great solution though. A filter to only show messages with 'Designer', 'Photo' or 'Publisher' tags (or combination) in those forums would also solve the 'lots of messages in the forum' and everybody can decide for themselves if they'd like to see all the messages of all three products or only a selection. So that would be great for us, as we can filter, AND great for Serif as they still can see all in one forum I'd say.

[Pšenda]

10 hours ago, wigglepixel said:

AND great for Serif as they still can see all in one

I think Questions forum Serif does not need to "see", it is for user queries. Serif uses mainly Bug and Request forums, which are divided by application (and OS).

[R C-R]

Forcing users to choose a tag to indicate which app their topic (most) relates to is a bad idea for several reasons, all of which have been covered in the other discussions about this. But briefly here are a few of them:

• This is a company run support forum intended for questions & other input from among others people that have not yet bought or used any Affinity app & may have little or no idea about their similarities or differences.
• More topics apply equally well to at least two & usually all three of the Affinity apps than to any single one of them.
• As we learned from the 2019 Keynote event, the Affinity product name was chosen to suggest the affinity these products have for each other via the common native file format, the ability of any of them to open & edit documents created in any of them, StudioLink, & so on.
• Like Walt said, looking only for topics tagged for one specific app means missing a lot of very useful info that applies to all of them.
• Invariably, someone suggests adding a fourth tag for general questions or allowing more than one tag for that, & others suggest there should also be mandatory tags for the OS. 
• A lot of people new to the forum do not as yet even understand why their name or email address is not a good title for their topic. It is a bit much to expect them to know which tag(s) they should choose.

[Pšenda]

"Forcing users to choose a tag to indicate which app their topic (most) relates to is a bad idea for several reasons".

Sorry, but all of the reasons listed here are not related to "not using Tags". Quite the contrary. You know how many queries are followed - what application?, what OS?, instead of being able to answer directly.

[Dan C]

32 minutes ago, R C-R said:

• A lot of people new to the forum do not as yet even understand why their name or email address is not a good title for their topic. It is a bit much to expect them to know which tag(s) they should choose.

I think this specifically comes down to the post editor wording as it asks for a 'Title' and doesn't specify that we're looking for a title to the post, rather than the title (ie Mr, Mrs) that the user goes by - which is also why we see a lot of forum usernames as post 'titles'. I've raised this with the team and hopefully we can make this clearer in the future

I can't comment on the splitting of the forums, as this is not a decision I can make - however I personally believe keeping the forums a common space would work best - perhaps with further tagging & search functionalities so that specific users can choose to filter, if they wish.

[R C-R]

Just now, Pšenda said:

You know how many queries are followed - what application?, what OS?, instead of being able to answer directly.

But for more queries than not, one or both is either irrelevant or only marginally relevant, like when explaining which keyboard shortcut does what.

Besides, if you are suggesting a mandatory OS tag as well as an app one, you have once again raised the already contentious issue of how many tags or the equivalent this forum should be split into, if that would result in people missing tons of helpful info relevant to all the apps, even more duplication of the same questions being asked over & over, etc.

If nothing else, consider how many replies just are links to existing topics & how many of them are equally relevant to at least two if not all three of the apps & to both Mac & Windows.

[Pšenda]

2 minutes ago, R C-R said:

But for more queries than not

Yes, because most users say this in the query text, many in the title, and some in the tag. Which you think is obviously wrong 😮

6 minutes ago, R C-R said:

if you are suggesting a mandatory OS tag

As far as I know, nobody suggests a "mandatory" tag - at least in my proposal it is not.
I merely suggested that the post/question form should include a direct option to define the tag (application, OS), so that the author is aware that this is an important piece of information, that will allow his question to be answered quickly. And it will allow other users to better understand their posts.

[R C-R]

1 minute ago, Dan C said:

I can't comment on the splitting of the forums, as this is not a decision I can make - however I personally believe keeping the forums a common space would work best - perhaps with further tagging & search functionalities so that specific users can choose to filter, if they wish.

In case it is not clear, personally I am not opposed to tags, just to mandatory ones.

For one thing, it presupposes that people are familiar enough with the apps (& with OS differences) to choose the most appropriate ones. That is often not true for new users or for those considering which app(s) to purchase or trial.

It is also true that some people simply do not like to be forced to make these choices & as a result won't post to forums that require them to do that. In the real world I not infrequently hear people complaining about having to 'jump through hoops' to get product support. That alone is enough for me to consider mandatory tags to be a bad idea.

[R C-R]

9 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

Yes, because most users say this in the query text, many in the title, and some in the tag. Which you think is obviously wrong 😮

Nope. I hope my last reply made that clear.

11 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

As far as I know, nobody suggests a "mandatory" tag - at least in my proposal it is not.

Several posts in this & other similar discussions mention the word "force" in connection with these tags. I am glad that you did not.

[Cecil]

@R C-R forced may be substituted with required as currently used in creating New Topic.

Current Procedure using iPad Pro:  + Create, Topic, Select Forum, select (example selection) Affinity on Desktop (MAC & Windows), Continue, Title (Required).

I suggest just adding one more multiple required selection:  Affinity Program, could be programmed for fly out with all Affinity products to select and after selection, pop out menu to click appropriate OS, each a simple check selection.

4 hours ago, R C-R said:

that would result in people missing tons of helpful info relevant to all the apps, even more duplication of the same questions being asked over & over, etc.

I believe, if implemented,  the initial response would improve as post identifies the Affinity program and OS, eliminating the numerous initial response: maybe someone could assist you if you post the program and OS.  All post would be posted, as now,  preventing missing tons of helpful information relevant! If tags were used.  I don’t think this would add hoops or discourage new users, it may assist them in getting proper reply, first attempt.

The initial post would identify the program and OS in question, eliminating the many unnecessary responses we read daily: on Windows using command works ... I’m not sure how it works on MAC or similar response, MAC users may post.

 

[walt.farrell]

4 minutes ago, Cecil said:

I suggest just adding one more multiple required selection:  Affinity Program, could be programmed for fly out with all Affinity products to select and after selection, pop out menu to click appropriate OS, each a simple check selection.

It is likely that selecting a forum, and filling in the Title, are functions already supported by the forum software that Serif has chosen to use. They are basicaly required in all kinds of forums.

It is less likely that selecting from a set of tags is a function that the off-the-shelf forum software supports. It may be supported, of course, but if not then it's not something that would be easy for Serif to provide. Most of the functions used in the forum are built into the forum software, and it's just a matter of the forum administrator choosing to turn them on, or not.

However, as I've never run a forum using the software Serif has purchased for this use, I don't know for sure what functions it has or how difficult it would be for Serif to program more functions. (But if it's not directly supported by the forum software, I think I would prefer that they devote their programmers to improving the Affinity applications, not making modifications to the forum software coding )

[Cecil]

13 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

think I would prefer that they devote their programmers to improving the Affinity applications, not making modifications to the forum software coding )

Walt I would agree 100%, over a year waiting on Apple Photos fix.  However, this is a long standing request by many users.  I don’t know if it’s possible or if it’s considered not needed. I do know it’s a question that appears often.  My main point, eliminating the initial response based on program and OS, which is another useless read and users easily scan the post, identify program and OS, reply or pass.

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, Cecil said:

@R C-R forced may be substituted with required as currently used in creating New Topic.

Forced, required, & mandatory all mean the same thing.

It is also not the same as requiring a title because users are free to choose anything they want for a topic title, while forcing them to choose among a predefined list of apps and/or OS's is entirely different, & often would be irrelevant.

[Cecil]

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

Forced, required, & mandatory all mean the same thing.

I guess it depends on user, your need for assistance, and adequate response.  Do we not all see the numerous post that require someone to request the user to post their program and OS?  Is multiple request not frustrating to users not familiar with the different Affinity OS program functions?  I’m not requesting total rewrite of web system, eliminating post for all users to review.  I think “if” the initial post read: Cannot change brush size with mouse, Affinity Photo, macOS, a Mac user would respond, with the appropriate Mac response.  Or do you think a Windows user reply: I use Windows... maybe a Mac user will reply, is helpful?   Additionally, a Windows or Publisher user may skip to next post, based on information provided.  Personally, I’m not opposed to change, nor in favor to change if not necessary; however, if it provides all users a better, efficient interface that solves problems, do it.

[Granddaddy]

I understand the issue as follows:

1.) Affinity Designer, Affinity Photo, and Affinity Publisher have so much in common, including user interfaces, functions, purposes, and behaviors, that it is impossible to separate the applications one from another. Therefore it is beneficial for photo retouchers like myself to be forced to plow through dozens of forum threads about vector graphic illustrations and through dozens of threads about publishing advertising brochures, pamphlets, and books in order to find the few threads that actually deal with photo retouching and creative photo modification using Affinity Photo.

2.) Affinity Designer, Affinity Photo, and Affinity Publisher have so little in common that feature requests and suggestions for one application have no relevance or significance whatsoever for the other applications. Therefore it is appropriate to separate the feature requests and suggestions into separate forums for each separate application.

[Pšenda]

23 minutes ago, Granddaddy said:

into separate forums for each separate application.

You must have noticed, that there is an Affinity Suite thread, where common requests can be inserted.

[Pšenda]

43 minutes ago, Granddaddy said:

to find the few threads that actually deal with photo retouching and creative photo modification

Just for the interest, I think it would be appropriate to divide the forum according to thematic areas and procedures, not only by individual applications.

 

 

[R C-R]

5 hours ago, Cecil said:

Do we not all see the numerous post that require someone to request the user to post their program and OS?

The questions forum exists to assist people looking for answers, both from the staff & from other users. We users do not need to know which app or OS the OP is using to decide if we want to post anything to that discussion or not. Participation is completely voluntary for us.

If someone is looking for information about a specific subject then a search (particularly one using Google or Bing instead of the somewhat dysfunctional forum software search engine) is a much better way to do that than browsing through every topic.

Both questions & answers to them do not need to be, nor should they be, confined to one app or one OS. Any forum user should be encouraged to ask any question they want, regardless of how much or little they know about graphics apps or how to use them with any OS, as long as it relates in some reasonable way to using one or more of the Affinity apps.

Among other things, that includes pre-purchase questions about which app(s) might best suit their needs, what hardware and/or OS is best suited for that, general questions about using the Affinity apps with other software & with each other, what the Affinity apps can & can not do (individually or in combination), where to find good information (both from Serif & other sources) about related topics like color management & file formats; & of course anything related to using the tools, panels, other UI elements, etc. specific to one or more of the Affinity apps.

If anyone wants to assist other users with any of that and it is important to know which OS or app is involved to do that and that information is not included in the OP or obvious from the nature of the question, then they can either ask for it or provide general information applicable to all platforms & apps or simply move on to some other topic & leave it to other users or the staff to deal with that one.