Export with bleed

[Kris123456]

Hi, I'm a new Affinity Publisher user.  I'm on windows desktop.

I created a document (multipage book) with bleed set to .125.

Now that I'm done with the document, I am trying to export to pdf for print.  When I have it set to export to pdf for print, and then I check off the "include bleed" box, the "pdf for print" box (where it says preset), goes blank.  In other words, the export window won't let me have both "pdf for print" and "include bleed" selected at the same time.  I hope that makes sense.

Thanks in advance for any help or insights as to what I should do.

[NilsFinken]

The Preset is already defined as without bleed. Consequently, when you change any setting, you need to choose More and save your own preset that includes bleed.

[Fixx]

Modifying a preset clears preset name in the selection box. It is a UI problem, not a technical one. This is discussed there: 

 

[Kris123456]

Okay. Thank you both. I understand now. 

[R C-R]

9 hours ago, Kris123456 said:

In other words, the export window won't let me have both "pdf for print" and "include bleed" selected at the same time.

The export presets are just a named collection of export options, the same ones you see in the main export window & in the "More" window when you choose a preset. They have no additional hidden options or any other special significance beyond that.

So there is nothing preventing you from selecting a preset & then changing one or more of its options, nor does that place any limitations on the export other than it is no longer one of the named presets. If you want, you can add it as a custom preset & name it anything you want.

[R C-R]

4 hours ago, Fixx said:

Modifying a preset clears preset name in the selection box. It is a UI problem, not a technical one.

It is not a UI problem, just a consequence of modifying a named preset. At that point it is no longer that named preset & thus logically should not retain that preset's name.

[Fixx]

4 minutes ago, R C-R said:

It is not a UI problem, just a consequence of modifying a named preset. At that point it is no longer that named preset & thus logically should not retain that preset's name.

It is a problem if people keep asking what is happening in this dialog box.

[R C-R]

1 minute ago, Fixx said:

It is a problem if people keep asking what is happening in this dialog box.

How many users actually find it difficult to figure out that if they change a named preset it no longer is that preset & thus the preset name is no longer appropriate for that export?

After all, by its nature what we see in this forum is not representative of all or even most users. A lot of topics are started by users who are new to the Affinity apps, & some who are new to using graphics editing apps in general. Quite a few have very little prior knowledge of file formats (or file types in general), or of color spaces, the difference between vector & raster objects, or any of a dozen other things.

So they come here looking for help. There is of course nothing wrong with that -- it is why the forum exists -- but that does not mean the UI should be designed to make everything immediately obvious & understandable to every user, regardless of their experience. Not only would that be impossible, any attempt to do that would add a lot of clutter to the UI that would become annoying as they gained more knowledge of how the apps work.

I think a big part of this is the result of the low price of the apps. Because of that, a lot of people assume they are basic, entry level products intended only for inexperienced users, but of course they are much more than that.

[walt.farrell]

I agree with @R C-R's posts (just above), but at a minimum the Publisher (and other Affinity applications) Help could usefully be improved to mention this behavior. For example, Publishing PDF Files specifically instructs the user to choose a Preset, and then to make some changes. Those changes will clear the Preset name, and that would be one place to mention this behavior.

[R C-R]

Just now, walt.farrell said:

... but at a minimum the Publisher (and other Affinity applications) Help could usefully be improved to mention this behavior.

I think it is safe to say that almost everyone (including a lot of the support staff) would like to see a lot more things covered in more detail in the Help. 

36 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

For example, Publishing PDF Files specifically instructs the user to choose a Preset, and then to make some changes.

Well, not exactly. It just says users can do that to 'fine tune' the export settings, not that they have to do that. But nowhere (that I can find) is there anything about creating custom export presets, not in that or any other topic. IMO, this is a major omission, particularly since in the Export > More window it is not obvious that to create one users have to click on the "Manage Presets" button.

[Kris123456]

I have to agree with Fixx that it is a problem or issue that ought to be fixed.  Looking at the export window, once you change something like "include bleed," how should the person looking at the export window know that they are still going to get a "pdf for print" quality export?  If there was only one type of pdf output, it might be clear.  But there are several types listed in the drop down, so for all the new user knows, they've successfully added bleed but the output pdf could be of a different qualify.  Anyway, thank God the forum exists and answers can be had!  Thanks everyone.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Kris123456

[walt.farrell]

22 minutes ago, Kris123456 said:

I have to agree with Fixx that it is a problem or issue that ought to be fixed.  Looking at the export window, once you change something like "include bleed," how should the person looking at the export window know that they are still going to get a "pdf for print" quality export?  If there was only one type of pdf output, it might be clear.  But there are several types listed in the drop down, so for all the new user knows, they've successfully added bleed but the output pdf could be of a different qualify.  Anyway, thank God the forum exists and answers can be had!  Thanks everyone.

So, then, exactly which changes should be allowed, and which shouldn't, before the preset name goes away?

Perhaps you need a different DPI to get the best quality from your printer, so you change the DPI. Is it still "PDF for Print"? Should it stay "PDF for Print" if you increase the DPI but change if you decrease it?

The preset is just a starting point for the user to make further tweaks to the settings. What is important is the actual settings, on the main page of the Export dialog and on the More... dialog, not the preset name, and if the user makes any changes it is no longer that preset.

[MikeW]

Personally, the way ID does it is best to me. In the example, PDF for Print, it would change to PDF for Print [Modified]

[walt.farrell]

34 minutes ago, MikeW said:

Personally, the way ID does it is best to me. In the example, PDF for Print, it would change to PDF for Print [Modified]

Perhaps. But unless they also highlight each of the modified settings, and possibly indicate what the original was, the name "PDF for Print" seems irrelevant, to me.

[MikeW]

12 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Perhaps. But unless they also highlight each of the modified settings, and possibly indicate what the original was, the name "PDF for Print" seems irrelevant, to me.

The way ID does it just indicates that it is not the as-shipped profile better than a blank list, which can look like an error (and does to some people). Generally, if I use a modified profile a couple times, I'll save it with a sensible name. But I do like knowing what it was based on.

[wonderings]

57 minutes ago, MikeW said:

Personally, the way ID does it is best to me. In the example, PDF for Print, it would change to PDF for Print [Modified]

I agree 100%. I find a lot of what Publisher and Affinity apps as a whole confusing when it comes to UI and layout. The Indesign option is simple and for the most part self explanatory. Publisher is a jumble and took searching the first time I wanted to export a PDF with bleed and crops. Adobe has years and years of pro users using and suggesting things that have refined their products very well for the most part. I would not be afraid to learn from Adobe as they have most likely learned from past mistakes. This is a screen shot showing the difference between the two. Way more flexibility with Indesign to get a PDF how you want. 

 

Screen Shot 2020-04-06 at 1.29.22 PM by B P, on Flickr

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, MikeW said:

The way ID does it just indicates that it is not the as-shipped profile better than a blank list, which can look like an error (and does to some people).

It isn't a blank list in Affinity, just a collection of export options that do not match any named preset & therefore has no name.

I do not see how tacking [Modified] onto the end of a named preset, which after all may end up being significantly different from any preinstalled or custom preset, would be an improvement. If anything, I suspect it would be just as confusing to a lot of users as leaving it blank.

[MikeW]

3 minutes ago, R C-R said:

It isn't a blank list in Affinity, just a collection of export options that do not match any named preset & therefore has no name.

I do not see how tacking [Modified] onto the end of a named preset, which after all may end up being significantly different from any preinstalled or custom preset, would be an improvement. If anything, I suspect it would be just as confusing to a lot of users as leaving it blank.

Maybe. But at least it would show what one used before modifications, which would be the point. It would eliminate part of the guess work...Did I start out with pdf/x-4? pdf for print? pdf for export? etc.

[R C-R]

2 hours ago, MikeW said:

Maybe. But at least it would show what one used before modifications, which would be the point. It would eliminate part of the guess work...Did I start out with pdf/x-4? pdf for print? pdf for export? etc.

What it does not do is eliminate the guesswork about how the preset has been modified, or make it clear that unless it is saved as a new custom preset once the document has been exported there is no way to reuse it.

[MikeW]

Naysayers don't go to heaven 😁

I, and likely the others for whom this request means something, know and understand the changes only last until changed again. (Maybe just the session, I haven't paid much attention.) Even so, I have had little difficulties in understanding what I changed.

As this modification probably won't ever make it into Affinity applications anyway, this discussion is moot.

[R C-R]

7 minutes ago, MikeW said:

Even so, I have had little difficulties in understanding what I changed.

Presumably everybody understands what they have changed when they change it. As I see it, the problem is remembering what was changed later on, particularly after the file has been exported & they have quit the app. The only remedy for that I know of is to save it as a new custom preset, so what I would like to see is some way to make that more obvious.

I am just not sure of a good way to do that. It should not be too intrusive so I have ruled out a potentially annoying notice popping up on clicking the Export button, asking if the user wants to save it as a new preset. Maybe a line of text below the now blank preset name with a reminder that it is unsaved would work?

[walt.farrell]

21 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Maybe a line of text below the now blank preset name with a reminder that it is unsaved would work?

Or perhaps a + sign next to the Preset name field, like one has in the latest File > New dialog?

[R C-R]

2 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Or perhaps a + sign next to the Preset name field, like one has in the latest File > New dialog?

That would at least be consistent with the File > New dialog, & with the "Custom" text or something similar appearing next to the + sign when some option was changed it would be an improvement.

[Wosven]

8 hours ago, R C-R said:

What it does not do is eliminate the guesswork about how the preset has been modified, or make it clear that unless it is saved as a new custom preset once the document has been exported there is no way to reuse it.

Usually, you save your most use presets and use them each day.

When you modify one, it's mostly for a specific task, as for example in ID exporting to spread when exporting covers.
Since it's a rare occurrence, it's easy to check this parameter when I'm using a modified preset if I'm exporting a cover (I don't want to save presets variant "all pages|all spreads", I've got enough depending of papers, web options, etc.), and if I'm not sure about the modified settings, I reload the original and unmodified preset.

That's straightforward and an easy workflow. But it's important to get the original preset name append with "modified", since in the same day you can export for different purposes and  slighty modify a preset (spreads|pages, lower resolutions for web PDF when asked for maximum size, etc.). Having the original preset name (+"modified" or "*") prevent you to reload the original preset and do again the needed modifications when exporting the same file more than once.

[R C-R]

3 minutes ago, Wosven said:

Having the original preset name (+"modified" or "*") prevent you to reload the original preset and do again the needed modifications when exporting the same file more than once.

I do not understand what you mean or how that would do anything useful.