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Gear teeth


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As a technical illustrator may I suggest:

 

1 That you change the name of 'Cog' in the shapes list to 'Gear'. Cog is very old terminology and not a very professional way to refer to them.

 

2 Add an extra attribute that allows a variable curve to be added to the gear tooth form. It looks so much more realistic. See attached sample.

Gear teeth.afdesign

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I don't see much reason to change the name.  The Cog tool also does much more than just Cog/Gear shapes, so there isn't a name that reasonably encompasses all the shapes it can generate.  This also isn't a CAD program, so not sure how "professional" the choice of name needs to be?

 

I'll think about the curve property - the problem is that there is no single way to produce a pleasing curve, so what you consider to be correct, might not be the curve that other people want.  No one can argue about how a straight line should look though.

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Hi Ben,

That is a fair point you make about what to call this kind of shape and I accept it.

 

I appreciate that AD it is not a CAD program but if you plan to introduce more technical drawing features you might as well get the terminology right eg extension lines, dimension lines with arrow heads (that do not scale with line length), pcd (objects equally spaced on a circle) and so on. AD can be the best thing since sliced bread for those of us who do not do enough CAD type work to invest in a CAD program. :rolleyes:

 

The question of the curve may be answered by the way I did it. I converted the gear to curves adjust one tooth and then copied and pasted it onto all the other teeth. Considering the cogs regular shape perhaps some way of converting the side of one tooth to a bezier curve and after adjusting apply to all sides of the teeth. This could be a useful feature for nearly all the other standard shapes that have naturally straight edges.

If voting made any difference it wouldn't be allowed!

Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.

To be ignorant of world happenings is forgivable - to be willingly ignorant is unforgivable.

Truth does not need to be protected only lies do.

Mac OS Monterey 12.6.4

AD version 2.3.0

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jackamus, I too would love to have a shape to be able to draw involute gears.  I've played with the output of the cog using the corner tool and everything I can think of without much luck.  Unfortunately we would need the opposite of the corner tool to change the lines between the corners.

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The Polygon shape already has rounding of edges.  It's basically an interpolation of the bezier point positions between the straight line and the arc segment of a circle.  Since the polygon is based on corner points on a circle, the interpolation is easy.

 

The problem I have with the cog is that while the curve may be easy to define for common cases, it might be difficult to parameterise for all cases in a way the produces a good result.  I shall have a think about it later.

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Hi Ben,

I have to say I didn't realise that the shapes can be made to curve since it wasn't something I ever needed to use and therefore never used the attribute. There is much in AD that I'm unlikely to ever use but that's what makes AD such a good versatile program.

 

Regarding the cog I do realise that you have to consider overall versatility whereas I only consider one feature. However I'm glad that you think it may be worth giving some thought to this.

 

In my simple way I imagine that clicking a 'Curved side' box a curve node will appear at the top and bottom of the side of one tooth. As the curve is edited then they all do the same just as currently happens with polygons. The difference is that there are two nodes to edit rather than using a slider to adjust a predetermined curve. The two nodes would allow a more flexible approach to editing the curve.

 

Is this over-simplification?

If voting made any difference it wouldn't be allowed!

Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.

To be ignorant of world happenings is forgivable - to be willingly ignorant is unforgivable.

Truth does not need to be protected only lies do.

Mac OS Monterey 12.6.4

AD version 2.3.0

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It is....

 

Our shapes are generally parameterised with single percentage values.  It's simplistic, but when a shape has multiple parameters, they have to work together through the range of potential values. I also try to ensure that shapes do not self-intersect, and that the resulting geometry is clean and optimal.

 

The other stipulation we have is that the shape needs to keep within it's original bounding box.  So, any custom tweaks, like adding curves, need to keep the geometry inside the box.  Not so easy to work out the constraints on a curve that can be custom adjusted.  If, instead the curvature is controlled by a single percentage and possible a style option - controlling the result is much easier.

 

Like I say - I'll have to experiment.

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Thanks Ben for explaining the problems. I'm grateful that you will at least consider some kind of adjustment.

If voting made any difference it wouldn't be allowed!

Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.

To be ignorant of world happenings is forgivable - to be willingly ignorant is unforgivable.

Truth does not need to be protected only lies do.

Mac OS Monterey 12.6.4

AD version 2.3.0

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Ok.  I've had a play with adding curved edges, and I've got a parameterised solution.

 

What I can do is offer curvature based on bounds of the angular segment formed between edge tooth on the cog.  The segment forms a trapezoid, based on the angular difference between the tooth and notch.  I can then use this to project the control points of a bezier curve and interpolate them with a simple percentage.  It can curve inwards or outwards. The amount of available curvature, as I say, depends on the angular space between the tooth and the notch.  If the tooth and notch are at the same angle, the curvature is cancelled.  It seems like a solution that gives you the ability to do regular cogs, and also some other cool variations.  It is strictly limited by the geometry, however.

 

Here's some examples:

 

post-17-0-26304100-1438106179_thumb.png

 

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Hi Ben,

I don't pretend to understand the jargon but you have done a good job with this. The first example is what I was after and I'm sure the more creative graphic artists among us will be able to have fun with the other examples. Whatever it was you did it certainly is versatile.

Thanks for allowing yourself to be sidetracked into looking at this issue so quickly. Will this be available in the next update?

If voting made any difference it wouldn't be allowed!

Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.

To be ignorant of world happenings is forgivable - to be willingly ignorant is unforgivable.

Truth does not need to be protected only lies do.

Mac OS Monterey 12.6.4

AD version 2.3.0

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Great. I would buy it as an in-app!

 

Sold!  ;) 

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Hi Ben,

I don't pretend to understand the jargon but you have done a good job with this. The first example is what I was after and I'm sure the more creative graphic artists among us will be able to have fun with the other examples. Whatever it was you did it certainly is versatile.

Thanks for allowing yourself to be sidetracked into looking at this issue so quickly. Will this be available in the next update?

 

Pictures speak a thousand words.  Here's a diagram of what I was trying to say.  Basically, the curve bezier is bounded by the red trapezoid, and the centre of the curve lies on the red intersecting line.

 

post-17-0-29394600-1438161337_thumb.png

 

I'm sure there's some sweet spots I could work out for snapping points - like where the true arc segments exist, or certain other ratios.  That might take a little more work though.

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Thanks for the explanation which now begs another question.

Would there be a node at the top and bottom of the tooth line? If there is could they not be independently edited?

 

Or

 

If not where would the node/nodes be?

If voting made any difference it wouldn't be allowed!

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To be ignorant of world happenings is forgivable - to be willingly ignorant is unforgivable.

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Mac OS Monterey 12.6.4

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The control node positions are interpolated based on the trapezoid - they don't line on the edge, they exist somewhere between the straight line third points and the maximum curve.  As you adjust the tooth and notch size and the inner radius this trapezoid will change, and the intersection line, and the range of curvature changes.  The percentage value just interpolates between the potential curves based on all the other properties.  It would be over-complicated to offer more detailed control.

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This will appear in a Beta at some point.  Because of the way we now manage our releases, we have to roll out development code more carefully.  I'll see what we can do...

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Ben, that looks great.  Yes the first example is in the area of what I am after also.  But I got to say that some of the others would be a lot of fun to use in different applications.  It's funny how the more I use some of the shapes the more I become addicted to them.  I rarely use a circle/ellipse any more almost always a donut with a small center, that way I have the center obviously marked until the end of that area of the project when I remove the center.  Makes it so easy to work with the ellipse.  Thank you for all your work on this.  I look forward to it showing up in a beta.

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Th

 

  I rarely use a circle/ellipse any more almost always a donut with a small center, that way I have the center obviously marked until the end of that area of the project when I remove the center.  Makes it so easy to work with the ellipse. 

It is said that 'confession is good for the soul.'

 

This is why I'm glad I use this forum. Having gone on about being a technical illustrator and making all manner of suggestions to make my life easier, along comes a suggestion, just like Gear maker has made, that solves one of my biggest headaches!

 

Regardless of what I do with an ellipse I always need to know where its centre is. That is why I was fieldlng suggestions about maintaining the ellipse's bounding box regardless of its orientation in order to know where the ellipses' centre was.

 

Then along come Gear maker and says 'I never use ellipses without turning them into donuts and using the smallest centre hole as an aid to seeing the ellipse centre".

 

I tried this and made a centre hole of 0.1% which you can just see. Although less than 1% doesn't show in the Hole radius box the hole can be seen. It also allows me to position a major or minor axis in the correct position and align concentric ellipses.

 

Thanks Gear maker.

If voting made any difference it wouldn't be allowed!

Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.

To be ignorant of world happenings is forgivable - to be willingly ignorant is unforgivable.

Truth does not need to be protected only lies do.

Mac OS Monterey 12.6.4

AD version 2.3.0

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Do you know that the snapping for ellipses includes key points for the centre?  If you only have snapping for key point enabled, you'll easily get the exact centre.

 

Key points are projected along axis - so you can align to the centre of an ellipse along an axis, or get the snap directly on the centre point.

 

Key points only exist for Shapes layers.  If you convert to curves, you lose them.  They are a nice extra you get from using and sticking with our dynamic shapes.  All shapes based on a circle (such as the polygon, cog or star) will have a centre key point.

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Hi Ben,

I didn't realise about the snapping to key points although I must have used them by accident. Most of my ellipses are made into curves in order to cut and vary line thickness as well as to join straight lines to them. So Gear maker's suggestion is still valid for me in many instances.

If voting made any difference it wouldn't be allowed!

Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.

To be ignorant of world happenings is forgivable - to be willingly ignorant is unforgivable.

Truth does not need to be protected only lies do.

Mac OS Monterey 12.6.4

AD version 2.3.0

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Ben, thanks for the info.  Now you may have caused a workflow change for me.  After playing with it for awhile it will help in certain instances.  But others it won't like in the attached a line anchored to one spot and having to pass through the center, easiest way is by moving the non-anchored node.  That doesn't work by snapping but the donut does.  Also passing the side of a shape through the center of an ellipse.

 

Also an issue I have frequently with snapping that I don't know how it can be fixed is when I have maybe fifty or a hundred shapes in an area I have to keep my left finger on the option key to turn snapping off because it snaps to to many things.

 

post-2932-0-87720700-1438215009_thumb.jpg

 

Thank you for the suggestion I will definitely use it when possible.  It's going to take a combination of processes.

 

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 I have to keep my left finger on the option key to turn snapping off because it snaps to to many things.

 

attachicon.gifScreen Shot 2015-07-29 at 4.54.14 PM.jpg

 

Thank you for the suggestion I will definitely use it when possible.  It's going to take a combination of processes.

 

Is this a short-cut for on and off snapping? What other key do you use?

If voting made any difference it wouldn't be allowed!

Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.

To be ignorant of world happenings is forgivable - to be willingly ignorant is unforgivable.

Truth does not need to be protected only lies do.

Mac OS Monterey 12.6.4

AD version 2.3.0

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Alt/Option turns off snapping in all cases.  It's intended for temporary disabling snapping, whether as a result of global snapping or tool specific snapping.  It also applies to things like snapping of gradient nodes, shape parameter nodes, etc.

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Just pressing alt/Option doesn't do anything! What else should I be doing?

If voting made any difference it wouldn't be allowed!

Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.

To be ignorant of world happenings is forgivable - to be willingly ignorant is unforgivable.

Truth does not need to be protected only lies do.

Mac OS Monterey 12.6.4

AD version 2.3.0

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