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Martin Liam

pictures too dark in develop persona preview

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@Chris B By the looks of it, I am not using any "Wide Color Gamut" profiles or anything out of the ordinary - more strangely, no profile changes happen when I open/close the laptop screen (which causes the photo display dark or correctly) while connected to the exterior monitor. I think you are on the right path with it being a strange hardware-dependent bug though (considering the device changes from "Generic PNP Monitor" to "Surface Panel Filter")

Annotation 2020-05-12 160354.jpg


- Nikon Z7 | Nikon D7000 | Nikon D70s with Ikelite Housing | GoPro Hero5 Black -

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@Chris B What is interesting to me is that even a screenshot picks up the darkness/brightness difference between the workspace and navigator - see attached screenshot with same picture of my dog on the couch with color profiles, etc.

Annotation 2020-05-12 162100.jpg


- Nikon Z7 | Nikon D7000 | Nikon D70s with Ikelite Housing | GoPro Hero5 Black -

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Here's a similar screenshot showing the Color Management "Advanced" Tab. Still a dark workspace and light navigator.

It is worth noting, I think, that it isn't just this particular photo - This issue happens to all of the NEF files from my Z7 as well as NEF files out of my D7000.

Annotation 2020-05-12 164903.jpg


- Nikon Z7 | Nikon D7000 | Nikon D70s with Ikelite Housing | GoPro Hero5 Black -

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Hey Sunshine1868,

I've spent the better part of 90 minutes working with your file on my Surface Pro.

I haven't touched the Surface Pro since we went into lockdown so it has had no updates etc.

I booted it up and opened your file in the 1.8.3 beta and the document view was dark whilst the Navigator Panel was light...

I then installed the 1.8.4 beta expecting the issue to be resolved—it wasn't. So I then started moving the app around the screen which I thought should have refreshed the preview, again, no change.

So I started going into all the Colour Management settings trying different settings. I calibrated the display and checked all the settings in the app as well as the Develop Assistant settings. Again, no change.

Finally, I remembered something one of the developers said and did a quick reset on the app. I just launched it with Ctrl held down and checked all the options (this resets every customisation in the app) and hey presto—a properly colour managed view.

I know you've tried this before but can you humour me and do the hard reset (hold Ctrl and launch the app and check everything). You can back everything up first by going to %AppData%\Affinity\Photo and rename 1.0 to 1.1—you may have already done this so don't bother if you have.

IMG_20200513_101538.jpg

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Hello guys,

I am using affinity photo 1.8.3.641 on windows 10.

I use a laptop and a secondary monitor.

I am having the same problem where all images I open look darker then they are. Also after exporting the images are correct exposure again. Affinity doesn't change the file, it only displays it wrong. It is like affinity, and only affinity! makes my images look darker then they are. Unlike most others that have described a similar problem, my files always look darker. It is not limited to only one of the personas. In the navigator tab, bottom right, the file also looks too dark.

I haven't always had this problem but I can't remember at which update it first occurred.

Also It is only the built-in laptop display that shows the images darker than they are. When using my separate monitor (iiyama ProLite E2480HS) the files do show up correctly. The little copy of the picture on the navigator tab weirdly does have the wrong, too dark exposure. The most annoying part of this all is that the built-in laptop display is well-calibrated (except when using affinity) and the monitor that does work with affinity is pretty old and shitty so it is also not suited for editing.

 

Is there any way I can fix this so I can edit my photo's on my laptop screen again. I know from other forums that you guys are aware of this problem, but I didn't fully understand why it isn't fixed yet.

If there are any other details you need to help me, let me know!

 

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@Chris B Thank you for spending the time on this! I do appreciate your help immensely. After all, the frustration of a brand new laptop not displaying photos correctly is painful :/
I tried a full-reset of the Affinity Photo Beta software (hold control on launch, select all, reset), then File > Open, and the issue persists. I tried toggling between windowed and full-screen, but nothing seemed to change.

Do we have any other avenues that we can try? Is there any testing I can do or log files I can send that may help on your end?

Thanks again for your help

Fullscreen.jpg

Windowed.jpg


- Nikon Z7 | Nikon D7000 | Nikon D70s with Ikelite Housing | GoPro Hero5 Black -

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Ah no! Really thought that would do it.

I'm going to have a chat with some developers. I really am not sure what is going wrong now. If we've reset the app (to make sure it uses the correct display profile for the display you're viewing it on) and made sure you're using sRGB display profile as well as running the 1.8.4 beta it should be working...

Update - Would you be able to try installing 1.6.5 from this link? We need to figure out if this has ever worked for you and we've carefully narrowed down all the potential builds where some code started to change. Sorry to be asking you to do this but it's kind of a last resort. If it works, we can look at the differences in code.
https://store.serif.com/en-gb/update/windows/photo/1/

Remove your retail 1.8 and install the 1.6.5 if you can. I really appreciate it. Sorry to be a pain.

Update update - I know you confirmed you updated to the beta but can you check it is definitely 1.8.4.650? Help > About :) 

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18 hours ago, OleV2 said:

Is there any way I can fix this so I can edit my photo's on my laptop screen again. I know from other forums that you guys are aware of this problem, but I didn't fully understand why it isn't fixed yet.

 

It has potentially been fixed in the 1.8.4 beta:

Unfortunately Sunshine1868 says the fixed has not worked but it has for me and a few others. 

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@Chris B I am running 1.8.4.650 (Beta) - I will try downgrading* retail to 1.6.5 and let you know the results

*Uninstall 1.8.x retail, then install from link.

BetaAbout.jpg


- Nikon Z7 | Nikon D7000 | Nikon D70s with Ikelite Housing | GoPro Hero5 Black -

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Posted (edited)

@Chris B

Ok, I have installed retail version 1.6.5.135 after uninstalling my updated retail version. Opening our test file we've been using (my dog on the couch) yields this even more interesting result:
I even tried the "hold control and reset everything" tactic.

Should I go ahead and go through every retail version to find one that works..?

165 Test.jpg

Downgrade165.jpg

Edited by Sunshine1868

- Nikon Z7 | Nikon D7000 | Nikon D70s with Ikelite Housing | GoPro Hero5 Black -

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Hi Sunshine1868,

The 1.6 must be a version that doesn't fully support the raw ( at a guess).

So 1.7.0 doesn't work and I would suspect 1.7.3 doesn't either.

Gah I really do not know what is happening. It is like the Surface is being profiled by something. Which Surface is it? I'm using a Surface Pro 7. Not that I think the model matters. 

I assume 16 bit is also too dark? 32 bit raw processing is usually for edge cases and I wouldn't expect many people to actually require that for everyday image processing. 

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@Chris B I am using the Surface Laptop 3 (15", AMD Ryzen 7 Microsoft Surface Edition)
The file opens in 16 bit - switching to 32 bit (in the assistant panel) makes the photo even darker.

16 Bit.jpg

32 bit.jpg


- Nikon Z7 | Nikon D7000 | Nikon D70s with Ikelite Housing | GoPro Hero5 Black -

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8 hours ago, Chris B said:

It has potentially been fixed in the 1.8.4 beta:

As with Sunshine1868, the 1.8.4 beta doesn't solve the problem . However I did notice that the picture in the navigator tab is now exposed propperly when using affinity on my separate monitor.  So on my monitor it workes perfect with the beta now. 

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14 minutes ago, Sunshine1868 said:

I am using the Surface Laptop 3
I am using 16 bit - switching to 32 bit (in the assistant panel) makes the photo even darker.

The Develop Persona always works in a 32 bpc workspace when its input is a camera raw file, so alternating between 16 bpc and 32 bpc for the persona's output to the Photo Persona should not be expected to make any difference in the app's failure to correctly manage the display in Develop Persona.

You got a duller and less contrasty image when switching the Develop Persona output from 16 bpc to 32 bpc because the tone curve option in Develop Assistant changed from "Apply tone curve" to "Take no action".

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15 hours ago, OleV2 said:

As with Sunshine1868, the 1.8.4 beta doesn't solve the problem . However I did notice that the picture in the navigator tab is now exposed propperly when using affinity on my separate monitor.  So on my monitor it workes perfect with the beta now. 

Thanks OleV2, I did see your earlier post but I realise I did not acknowledge it—apologies. Can you screenshot your Windows Colour Management tabs (should be 3) so I can see what you've got set?

I am at a loss and I have discussed this with development for quite some time now. If the Navigator Panel is displaying this correctly, surely it has to be a monitor profiling issue/clash. 

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@Chris B I'm kind of dead in the water until we can figure out what the issue is and fix it - is there any way I can work directly with somebody (e.g. a developer) to help them troubleshoot more thoroughly?


- Nikon Z7 | Nikon D7000 | Nikon D70s with Ikelite Housing | GoPro Hero5 Black -

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5 hours ago, Chris B said:

Can you screenshot your Windows Colour Management tabs

Hi Chris, no worries, thanks for the reply.
I have great news. To be absolutely honest, I have no idea how, but the problem seems to be fixed for me. 
In the process of making screenshots of my color management tabs I accidentally scrolled my mouse wheel while hovering above the settings in the third tab. I accidentally changed some of the settings. I was worried that I had f***ed up the colors even more. I went to check by opening affinity (the beta you gave me) and to my surprise the colors were now showing up correctly on both my displays. I have tried changing these settings before but back then it didn't alter anything. I somehow have found working settings by accident. I have tried everything posted on this forum for months now without a result. Now it is finally fixed. Here are the screenshots of the setup that magically resolved the problem for me. 

696247628_Schermopname(37).png.8aecc406334e6283518dec63e4c020e7.png1720992845_Schermopname(38).png.2478d74c1f929f12af40a1773cadfa6a.png1393762558_Schermopname(39).png.2a429b68da0ce171cb4a3d006376acb1.png720430916_Schermopname(40).png.332505275d4bb1fd559233ce6c452092.png

Is it a problem that these are in my own language? if so, I could temporarily change my laptop's language to English to remake the screenshots. 

If you would like any other information, please let me know. I would love to help the other people solving this issue as I know how annoying it is.

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I have a similar problem. First, the image displayed is much too dark. I found on this forum how to solve that: minimizing the program screen, then maximise it again. It seemed rather hand made, but it works.

But, the final result is different of the photo displayed, so all the work done gives nothing but rubbish as you can see on the attached photos.

Capture d’écran (64).png

200515chateau10b.jpg

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2 hours ago, OleV2 said:

Now it is finally fixed.

Here an update on my situation.

Under more investigation, I found out that the problem is not completely fixed yet. My photo's still look dark in the develop persona, but when I switch to the photo persona it looks right again. If I then switch back to the develop persona the photo also looks good there. So for me the photo's only look dark when first opening a file in the develop persona, after switching to the photo persona it is all good. 

Oh and another thing I noticed. 

When i open a file, as you know, it opens in the develop persona. For the first five seconds or so of having a photo loaded, the histogram looks like you would expect it to do when looking at the, at this point, still too dark looking photo. Then after five seconds or so the histogram adjusts itself to the correct histogram (what you would expect from the photo when correctly exposed) the photo however remains dark looking. See the video I added showing this histogram thing.

Wouldn't this imply that the problem is not only visual? (affinity doesn't just display the file wrong but it also "knows" it looks wrong according to the histogram?) 

The histogram seems to be linked to the way the photo looks (too dark) for a few seconds. Knowing this might be important when trying to solve the problem. Do you get what im saying here, I'm having trouble explaining it.

And o wow, sorry for my inconsistance but now, when opening a file to film the histogram thing, my files suddenly do look right when opening in the develop persona. There is just a short delay as you can see in the video below.

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This issue must be with how the software tells the hardware to display the photo information in the workspace - if I click "develop" on the RAW file (having made no changes or adjustments), Affinity Photo "develops" for a few moments and then displays the correctly-exposed image (or at least an image with a matching exposure to the Navigator pane - which has had the "correct" image the whole time). This means the Develop Persona's workspace preview is not giving accurate data to the display.


- Nikon Z7 | Nikon D7000 | Nikon D70s with Ikelite Housing | GoPro Hero5 Black -

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On 5/15/2020 at 3:36 PM, Sunshine1868 said:

@Chris B I'm kind of dead in the water until we can figure out what the issue is and fix it - is there any way I can work directly with somebody (e.g. a developer) to help them troubleshoot more thoroughly?

I'm working with the developer who originally made the fix in the beta. Development do occasionally post on the forums but it's up to the support staff 95% of the time. This is still actively being discussed with the developers.

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On 5/15/2020 at 3:50 PM, OleV2 said:

Is it a problem that these are in my own language? if so, I could temporarily change my laptop's language to English to remake the screenshots. 

 

I can tell which profiles are being used so don't worry about the language. I think Windows Colour Management is going to be playing a role in this issue.

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A few things to check for those of you who haven't already:

  1. Develop Assistant (tuxedo icon) - Set this to 16 bit
  2. Windows Colour Management - Advanced tab - Set Device Profile to sRGB IEC61966-2.1
  3. Affinity Preferences - Colour - Again, make sure you are using sRGB IEC61966-2.1 for the RGB Colour Profile and sRGB IEC61966-2.1 (Linear) for the 32 bit RGB Profile
  4. Make sure you are using the 1.8.4 beta
  5. Finally, try the reset. Go to %AppData%\Affinity\Photo and rename 1.0 (Beta) to 1.1 (Beta) and launch the app and load your raw. Ideally, we want to be all testing the same raw if possible so I propose we use the one I've attached to this post which is the one in the bug report and the one development worked with. If this raw works and your own raws do not, we can get around to it.

I know some of you have tried the above but I'd like you to reply and confirm. Now you've done this, we should all be in a similar environment. 

KMS_0107.NEF

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20 minutes ago, Chris B said:

I'm working with the developer who originally made the fix in the beta. Development do occasionally post on the forums but it's up to the support staff 95% of the time. This is still actively being discussed with the developers.

It is a serious problem when you spend time to improve a photo and that you get worse !!!

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